Painting figures using oils

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Hi Folks I was wondering if someone out there could advise me on the following issue;
I am unhappy with the quality and results that I am getting using the Windsor & Newton range of oils on my figures and through PF I have noticed that other modelers tend to use Talens Rembrandt Oils so I have decided to go for it and purchase about 10 tubes to get me underway however I am unsure of what to order. I cant get these locally so it will have to be done online and I have sourced the range at Jackson's Art Supplies in London, but I have noticed that there is a choice with some of the colours available with or without Linseed Oil but which one do I buy, I prefer a matt or very slight sheen on my figures and if someone could come up with a list of colours that they use it would be a great help.
Generally speaking I get a lot of Pigment problems with W&N resulting in graininess when blending in the shadows and highlights, the shadow mix removing the base colour down to the Acrylic undercoat etc and having recently bought a couple of tubes they are really watery and totally unusable.

TERRY

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

I addition to the Oils issue, I use Vallejo acrylics as an undercoat for the oils and once again with the help of the forums on PF I use a little Tamiya X-21 Matting agent in the mix to ensure a totally matt surface that I find absorbs the oils and gives them a mattish finish which is exactly what I want, however once you open the X-21 a white powder forms around the lid falls down into the jar and can easily find its way onto the figure and I now notice that the X-21 has started to dry out in the bottle and is turning into a thick goo, does anyone else find this and is there another Matting agent that someone can recommend before I go out and buy more X-21.
TERRY

 

[misfit151]

Hi Terry.....I amsure you will get a lot of advice from fellow planeteers however for what its worth I'll give you my twopenny worth as I always use oils over acrylics.....First I have both w&n oils and Rembrandt...both excellent brands.. however I always purge my colours on a piece of cardboard for a few hours..you will see the oil will be absorbed by the card...I then transfer the paint onto a plastic picnic plate and add either distilled turpentine or just white spirit..and apply to your undercoated figure always use a DRY brush to blend the colours.
Don't be eager ...take your time....and if it is not what you like just remove with white spirit...let it dry and try again...only do a couple of stages and put aside to dry..overnight or a couple of days...that's why I always have two or three figures on the go to allow for drying...best of luck..hope this helps......oils need time. Mike

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Thanks for that Mike the process that you have described is more or less how I paint but without using any thinners in order to keep the oils at a certain consistency, I always only ever tackled one figure at a time until joining PF to find that nearly everyone has at least a couple of figures on the go at the same time so I decided to give it a go and chose youngs WW1 British soldier and Youngs Norman Knight as the two that would run side by side however I have found myself concentrating on the Norman and the WW1 subject has barely left the trench but I can see the benefits with working on multiples, I am about 2 weeks away from completing the Norman but certainly like to improve my painting Techniques with the help of the PF modelers who have been an inspiration with getting me back into the hobby after a lengthy absence here's a couple of pics of where we are at the minute.
Thanks for your help.

TERRY

 

[megroot]

Hello Terry,
I'm a oilpainter to and I use W&N, Old Holland, and Rembrandt. They are all good.
I also let the lineseed soak out on a indexcard untill the oil is soaked into the card. Then I transfer it to a white tile (my pallet). Then thinning with whitespirit (as little as it could be) just to make it brushable.
After I paint the area I take a makeup brush and whipe the paint off. This is to avoid brushstrokes.
If you use to much paint, you get a grainess, instead of a color.
It doesn't matter what brand you use, if there is to much paint on the figure you will always get that effect.
If your undercoat is visible trough the oilpaint, let the oils dry and paint again. Then go shading and highlighting.
Use the Vallejo without Tamiya X21. It doesn't matter of the undercoat is shiny. You go over it with the oils.
I also use the Vallejo or Humbrol enamel, and most at the time both are shiny. It doesn't matter.
And I must admit that there is maybe some more pigment into the W&N then in the Rembrandt. If I had to make a choice between both: W&N is what I prefer.

Marc

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Hi Marc thank you for your input and again there are somethings in there that I already do but also other wee tips that I can try and along with Mike's suggestions I am creating ideas on tweaking my techniques slightly and applying these during the next painting session to see what we get, so I will let yous know how we get on.
TERRY

 

[Tecumsea]

Hi Terry, I use w&n, Rembrandt and old Holland. My preference is for old Holland as they have very little carrier in them but they are a bit more expensive. W&n are the cheapest but I get fed up with the amount of carrier that pushes out of the tubes. The Rembrandt are a good compromise. If I were starting from scratch I would buy old Holland.

Keith

 

[hypertex]

Terry, to answer your question about linseed oil: Linseed oil is the most popular oil for artists paint. However, linseed oil tends to yellow over time. Because of this most brands will substitute safflower oil for the lighter colors (such as white or buff colors). Rembrandt may offer both, although I cannot figure out which type of oil is used in the non-linseed variety.

Oil paint has two ingredients: pigment and a drying oil. Be careful not to remove too much oil when you soak it out on cardboard. If you remove too much oil, the pigments will agglomerate and the paint will turn to a rough paste. Most people seem to place a blob of paint on the cardboard to soak the oil out. What I do is use a palette knife and flatten the blob on the cardboard. This will allow the oil to soak out much faster, just 5 minutes, due to the increased surface contact.

Also, I don't find it necessary to remove oil from all colors. Some colors seem to have lower oil content, that is, they are less shiny out of the tube. I only find it necessary to remove oil from the shiny ones. Also, a little bit of clear oil in the tube when you first open it is normal. Just discard it. However, if the amount of clear oil is excessive, demand a refund for the paint.

As for a matting agent for your acrylics, try Vallejo Matte medium.

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Hi Keith interesting comments and certainly food for thought especially regarding the carrier in the W&N tubes, I have a about 30 tubes of this brand and to be honest I like the less expensive Winton colours best for their consistency as they seem to have a nicer feel when painting them on, my oils are very old so I did consider that age had effected them so off I went and bought some new tubes of W&N Artists Oils to find that they where extremely watery, then you got a wee blob that you thought could be used if applied to card to soak up the access but even after this there were a lot of pigments that would not blend into the base colour on the figure and just left a grainy mess, my next step was to squeeze the tube in an attempt to mix the contents inside the tube but once again a watery mess poured out as soon as the cap was removed so I gave up with these new tubes and banished them from being used. I am certainly going to try a new brand so everyones input is very useful.
Thanks
TERRY

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Okay thanks for that info about the linseed oil and the different amounts of oil in some of the colours, I can relate to all of this and would tend not to use some colours because of I know they will cause me problems, I guess that my quest is to have a selection of oils perhaps from different brands that I know will perform nicely and can be used with confidence, sounds like the perfect world but you folks are helping me with every comment.
TERRY

 

[Stelios Demiras]

Hello Terry,
I think that any oil brand you use must be in artists' series so the pigment will be very very fine. A nice video from the oil master Danilo Cartacci with English captions is very helpful. Here it is the link:

Regards
Stelios

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Brilliant video and all off the others that you can access from it, it really is helpful to watch other painters at work, I find that there is always something that you will pick up from them that will improve your own painting, thank you for the link.
TERRY

 

[fogie]

Hi terry,
I've been using oil paint for nearly five decades both in the day job and my figure painting. The key
with them is ....touch ! The paint finish depends on how much oil you soak out of the colour and how
much weight you apply when smoothing the brush strokes ... gently does it in both cases as you know.
White spirit ( Turpentine or Lavendar Oil in the early days ) dissolves the paint and is therefore really
a brush cleaner ... but the right touch will thin the colour a bit. Linseed oil will emphasise the transparency
of the colour and also apply a greater sheen.
With actual colours it's your choice. I like to mix my own so use a limited palette of just five colurs plus
two neutrals. ( The three primaries, plus raw umber, burnt sienna, paynes grey and titanium white ) But
I'm a dinosaur and accept that painters today have a need for more.

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Hello my friend thank you for your input, sounds like we are from similar generations and I am all for trying to keep things simple so I have also been looking at a paint box consisting of a small number of colours and once I get a brand or selection of colours from a few different brands that will give me grainy pigment free blending then that will be it.
Before I recently came back into the hobby I always tried to paint each section of a figure with oils in the one sitting while the paint was still wet and workable but I have come back in painting Busts and the areas can be fairly large so I have found myself getting into long tiring sessions that can take me into the early hours and it was through talking to some of the other planeteers that I was able to drop this habit and start painting in shorter manageable blocks and if you use to many colours then it can be difficult to match the colours from previous sessions so I try to keep the mixes simple. The colours that you use are the ones that I would also have in my paintbox and I can relate to the new colours being used by todays painters and the very realistic looking results that they get with their techniques, I can only look on in envy and at the end of the day its is other peoples work that we try to push ourselves to towards we may not match it but we get slightly better as try too.
TERRY

 

[fogie]

You never know Terry ... we might teach 'em a few things yet, eh ?

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Yeah but probably nothing to do with painting figures lol.
TERRY

 

[brian]

I've been an oil man for 30+ years and have picked up quite a few tips on the way.Always remember, if you want to keep your oil mix for another day put your palette paper, or any other palette you use,in a container and stick it in the freezer.The oil mix will never go off,and the mix is ready for use at a later date.I've had mixes in the freezer for weeks and they stay workable.
One of the best tips i've ever learnt about oils.No more trying to remember how you got a particular mix.
Brian

 

[theBaron]

Hi Folks I was wondering if someone out there could advise me on the following issue;
I am unhappy with the quality and results that I am getting using the Windsor & Newton range of oils on my figures and through PF I have noticed that other modelers tend to use Talens Rembrandt Oils so I have decided to go for it and purchase about 10 tubes to get me underway however I am unsure of what to order...

I use Schminke Mussini oils, myself. They're of very good quality, too, very fine grain to the pigments. As far as what to order is concerned, I'd get a basic range of colors, taking into account mixing other colors from primary colors (actually, what did you buy, when you first bought your W&N oils?) Going from memory (since my Farbkastl is at home), I started with titanium white, ivory black, lemon yellow and Naples yellow, Prussian blue, raw umber, burnt sienna, and a red whose proper name escapes me. I also bought a tube of flesh color.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Old Pete]

I use Reeves paints all the time now which I bought from a shop called the Word (I think they cost me £1.99) which also sells cheap books all my W&N oils are in a box as I dont use them very often if at all.You dont need to spend a fortune to get good results.

 

[TERRYSOMME1916]

Planeteers you have done it again and provided amazing useful feedback, Brian that's a great tip about the freezer this will really help me providing the wife doesn't see the paint in with the frozen veg, Brad this brand of oils is new to me but I will check them out for availability etc, my paint box consists off about 30 colours but I mainly use:
Titanium white
Lamp black
Burnt sienna
Raw umber
Vandyke brown
Yellow ochre
Cadmium Yellow
Chrome yellow
Cadmium Red
Alzerian Crimson
Light red
Ultramarine blue
Emerald green
Naples yellow
But some of these give me pigment problems hence my quest to replace them.
Last night I was painting a cross emblem on a lance pennant and made a base mix of Chrome yellow, Cadmium Yellow, Yellow ochre and Titanium white, I painted this onto the yellow acrylic undercoat and brushed it out and it looked good but once I tried to apply a Vandyke brown shadow we got the graineyness in the blending that spoilt the smoothed yellow base coat, however I just kept going working with it, applying more base here and there and a spot of hightlight until I got something that will have to do but the smoothness has gone so hopefully it will look better once it has dried.

Thanks again folks
TERRY