Pegaso News/Euromilitaire

[Huw63]

Huw i studied English medieval history and heraldry for years but there are plenty of books out there with all the relevant information, Charles Fox Davies The English Heraldry Scholars Choice edition, Charles Boutell The Handbook to English Heraldry, there are several editions to the last and many others and all give an in depth depiction of the rules that govern heraldry. Other countries differed in some form but the basics are the same

Many thanks for the references, much appreciated.

Cheers

Huw

 

[Dan Morton]

Martin: Short of buying one of these, would it be possible for the retailer to send you one for online review? You might be able to clear up some issues. Not the heraldry probably. Or could somebody else review the kit online? Or maybe the retailer could make one available to the reviewer during Euro?

Glenn: Looks like the back part of the horse "robe" touches the base, so it wouldn't be two supportive points of contact with the base but [as near as I can tell] three.

I've had to drill out a lot of Verlinden resin cast rearing horse back legs and reinforce them with small diameter alloy steel bar (not tube). I make two and sometimes three drills into the back legs so that the bar lines up with the bent joints of the legs. I also drill out as much of the interior trunk and neck as I can to reduce weight. I gave up trying to use any kind of flexible aluminum or copper bar. Flexible = not stiff enough to be supportive.

If the horse is cast in metal, not resin, I have no experience with that. If you have the figure cast in metal and the horse in resin....

Gorgeous sculpting and so much enjoyable detail for the painter, I would say it's worth it even if you have to deal with a lot of weight reduction and leg reinforcement.

All the best,
Dan

 

[gommolo]

The heraldy is correct. Every animal in heraldy on an horse, look forward and never back. The animals are turned in the direction of travel.
So much so that, in case of cowardice in battle, the King could IMPOSE the cowardly knight of SPILL THE ARME own a sign of treachery and shame.

Marco Colombelli

 

[bistray]

ok to clear this up once again the heraldry is not correct, it has nothing to do with facing forward, read the rules of English heraldry it has to face to the right dominant shoulder as you stood behind it facing it. so in this case if you stood on the left side of the horse facing the right side the leopard would be facing the left shoulder. The heraldry is there to identify the person on the battle field and all parts of the blazon are written down and must be displayed the correct format, changing the way the leopards face changes that format,

 

[gommolo]

I can say that the image I have posted is on the cover of the book "Heraldy in England" .................... and so, I think it is correct.

 

[bistray]

It can say what it likes under the heraldic rules its not correct as it would be someone else. If you have a green and yellow background with a red rampant lion facing left that is the sigil of Wiiliam Marshal if you put a right facing red rampant lion on the same background thats Henry De Beouville 2 different people very confusing on the battlefield.

 

[gommolo]

A lot of people are confusing about heraldy's rules

 

[gommolo]

If you are not convinced you can read "De insigniis et armis" by Bartolo da Sassoferrato (1313-1357), who wrote the first treatise on heraldry. Attached is the part relating the heraldry on the saddlecloth of the horse. Unfortunately I have only in Italian.

 

[bistray]

Thats great but it refers to italian heraldry and not english, if your not convinced i have attached a couple of books on English heraldry above, i think we will just have to agree to disagree

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Paul - thanks for the knowledgable comments that must have a material bearing on whether or not to purchase an expensive limited edition kit, at keast for some members. And yet no one has declared you a rivet counter or an arse. That must only happen with Napoleonics

 

[legaleagle]

Since there is no evidence of the saddlecloth of the Black Prince, I think the two positions are right.

 

[Alex]

I will search my french heraldry books but on one of them I remember reading that the lions were facing forward on both sides (looking at the head of the horse).
However, The only thing I do not like with this figure is precisely the fact that the heraldry is sculpted and unless you scrape it all off, you are pretty limited in your painting scheme.
Cheers
Alex

 

[Grod]

It can say what it likes under the heraldic rules its not correct as it would be someone else. If you have a green and yellow background with a red rampant lion facing left that is the sigil of Wiiliam Marshal if you put a right facing red rampant lion on the same background thats Henry De Beouville 2 different people very confusing on the battlefield.


View attachment 207807View attachment 207808

Great reference information Paul. Beautiful figure.
Gordon

 

[gommolo]

You can see this imagines from the Great Seals of England. The heraldy rules are the same in Italy and in England.

 

[legaleagle]

Definiively clear....

 

[bistray]

dont know where you got your pics from but here is the great seal of Edward III and Edward IV and you can clearly see on the rear of the caparison that the lions face to the rear, and no Italian heraldry does not have the same rules as English, neither does Spanish, Hungarian,Russian, possibly French does

 

[gommolo]

Sorry, but in your great seal of Edward IV, the leopards, not LIONS, face to forward, as in mine ...........

 

[gommolo]

And ..... the rules of Italian heraldry coincide with the British and French but are different from the Spanish and German.
Are the Spanish in particular to represent the heraldry on both sides of the horse as it appeared on the shield.

 

[bistray]

as I said before look at the back of the caparison and they face back and I know they are leopards and no Italian heraldry doesn't coincide in any way to English heraldry, I think we could go on for ages about this so as I said before we will just have to agree to disagree

 

[gommolo]

And Sir Goffrey Luttrell whit his wife from the Luttrell Psalter Manuscript (1320/40)