Pilot launch of Historicity

[gordy]

We're opening up a new forum for the discussion of historicity the caveat being that:

• The rules are being followed (naturally)
• Pointed out inaccuracies and errors are cited with references
• Corrective suggestions

Such discussions in the past are "lightning rods" and dissolve into nonsense, with the above basics we can have a healthy and productive discussion that will help us better not only our skills here at planetFigure but historicity as well. Be it correcting a kit or new releases from sculpters asking for that extra bit of knowledge to polish off their latest works.

Historicit-ians must also bear in mind not all of us share the same historical passion but more of an aloof [read: hobby] position as well

Miniature enthusiasts are not alone in other genres of modeling; calipeers and rivet-counters of airplane and tanks modelers share a niche within a niche - as well as just about any collective special interest (you should see a UNIX group meeting )

Other genres of modeling have similarly addressed the issue creating "Tweak Lists" (sample) I see no reason we couldn't also

~gordy

 

[garyjd]

Gordy, It's a great idea for those of us that feel Historicity is important and one to avoid if for whatever personal reason(s) gets under your skin.~Gary

 

[thegoodsgt]

Thanks, Gordy. I'd rather have more information at my disposal than less. I can always decide what to use and what to ignore, and I think most reasonable folks share that sentiment.

BTW, a series of Tweaks Lists for figures would be awesome for those predisposed to assembling them.

 

[mike23]

The Good Sarge says it all for me. It'll make the Planet even more valuable as a resource and source of inspiration.

 

[Dani A.]

Hello,

I do not think this is the right move.

The act of creating this new subforum dedicated to historicity would mean recognising the existence of two separate fields, or approaches, or schools, whatever you may call them, both of them legitimate; but, at the same time, it is segregating the hobby, relegating the historical approach to a inferior position, confining those so oriented to some kind of guetto, to a form of exile, as if their interventions somehow disturbed the normal proceedings of the other forums. In effect, creating this space could mean that no intervention, discussion or critic with a historical point of view would be tolerated outside the prescribed area. Not an attractive scenary, I believe.

Would in not be better to try to harmonize both currents, to find some way to close distances? To integrate instead of segregate. Adding instead of substracting.

I'm sure this initiative has been advanced with the better of the intentions, but I sincerely think it is not an ideal solution - far from it. It looks like a waving off.

This hobby has his roots in history - I still like to approach it so, and I know other people have a different, and equally respectable, opinion. I do not see why a scission between the two is felt necesary.

My two cents.

Dani

 

[gordy]

Originally posted by Dani A.@Jul 5 2005, 11:36 AM
Hello,
I do not think this is the right move.

I cannot possibly more dissagree.

The act of creating this new subforum dedicated to historicity would mean recognising the existence of two separate fields, or approaches, or schools, whatever you may call them, both of them legitimate; but, at the same time, it is segregating the hobby, relegating the historical approach to a inferior position, confining those so oriented to some kind of guetto, to a form of exile, as if their interventions somehow disturbed the normal proceedings of the other forums. In effect, creating this space could mean that no intervention, discussion or critic with a historical point of view would be tolerated outside the prescribed area. Not an attractive scenary, I believe.

Why should this be viewed as a "ghetto or exile" and not as an elevated form of miniaturism?

Would in not be better to try to harmonize both currents, to find some way to close distances? To integrate instead of segregate. Adding instead of substracting.

there are hobbyists and enthusiasts in all groups...

I'm sure this initiative has been advanced with the better of the intentions, but I sincerely think it is not an ideal solution - far from it. It looks like a waving off.

time will tell, it will be a productive component to compliment planetFigure, nevertheless there are always those who sit in the corner and pout while the rest are having fun..

This hobby has his roots in history - I still like to approach it so, and I know other people have a different, and equally respectable, opinion. I do not see why a scission between the two is felt necesary.

After all, this is planetFigure, not planetHistoricalFigure we cater to Sci-Fi and fantasy enthusiasts as well.



~gordy

 

[Guy]

Originally posted by gordy@Jul 5 2005, 11:37 AM

After all, this is planetFigure, not planetHistoricalFigure we cater to Sci-Fi and fantasy enthusiasts as well.



~gordy

Kinda says it in a nutshell.

 

[Cicero]

Hi all,

Personaly I think it's a great idea to create such a forum. It can only be a bonus for our passion. Although I can understand the position of Dani also, because as he states for most of us indeed our hobby has stronge roots in history and following out of it, creating figures as historical correct as possible.

My point of view: give it a try and see what becomes of it. The only barometer will be its number of posts, or the lack of them.

For what it's worth ...

greetings

Johan

 

[megroot]

hello Planeteers.

I really apreciate it that there will be such a forum. For some people like Dani it will be a good way to share his nowledge. For us painters it will be a great opportuniti the read the treads and become (if we are not already) more accurate in our painting.
And if we have problems with the figures we paint we can also ask for the answers here.
So i am with Johan, Give it a try.

Marc

 

[Johan]

... Not sure about this ... but you're the Captain, Gordy, so if you want to give it a try, I'll cooperate in a positive way to see how this turns out.

Nevertheless, I feel there is some wisdom in what Dani says ...

About "catering for Sci-Fi and Fantasy fans" - most Figure shows do that too - they give them a separate class - or "Forum", if you like, to compete in; I never went to a show which had a separate class for "Historically accurate" figures however, and I fervently hope that it is not your intention to make just that kind of separation here... actually, most good figures made by respectable manufacturors/sculptors who have a real love and passion for our hobby ARE historically accurate, or at least they try hard to achieve historical accuracy - these people are, as far as I know (and I do know a few of them), very serious about what they do. They do their research properly.

Now, if this Forum is intended to enable us to discuss freely the inaccuracies in, say, Hollywood-inspired figures of Native Americans and US Plains Cavalry with brilliant white suspenders, then I'm with you !

Best regards, and I hope I didn't offend anyone,

Johan

 

[Robin]

Me I think I am with Mr Putseys, I can see where Dani is coming from our hobby is fundementally based in history. Why split this off, this could cause more problems than it solves.

I also agree that I have also never been to a show with a different class for the Historical figure, though again I have for the Sci -Fi.

Robin

 

[garyjd]

Originally posted by Robin@Jul 5 2005, 04:12 PM
Why split this off, this could cause more problems than it solves.

Well, what was proven by not having a separate discussion section? Those of us that have seen or been involved in an "open" discussion have seen the results. This is an area that if you choose to read or participate fine, if not that's okay too. If you still feel not the need, or there being harm in having such a discussion section consider this. Why is there a separate painting discussion and a separate sculpting discussion? Should they not be together? Should those of us that only concentrate on one aspect of the hobby feel neglected or insulted by those that do the other? they both concern figures. This discussion could also consist of posting items that may be of interest. I've been stumbling onto goldmines of info on Civil War uniforms/equipment and the SHARING of this information could prove helpful to others with the same interest. I think too many of you are looking at this from the standpoint of past "discussions" on the subjects, I really do not see the harm in it. Again if you participate fine, if not fine, but neither does not make you any more or less of a miniature hobbyist or Pf member.~Gary

 

[Robin]

Gary

All that you mention has been going on in the forums since PF started, discussions about history figures and yes we even do share good finds on the internet here in the already formed forums, so why now do we need a forum for this?

I have been involved in an "Open" discussion as you put it, does this mean that you expect these discussions to be "Closed". Healthy debate can be only that Healthy. I see no need to open another forum for this. Gordy is in charge here if that is what he wishes to do then thats up to him.

Who is going to decide what goes in this forum, if you see something what are the criteria for putting it in this new forum, if you think it may cause a stir or need historical debate about the uniform should it go in then.

I would like also to point out that it was Gordy who mentioned the previous posts acting as he put it like "Lightning Rods", I and others have just pointed out that we have reservations about the new forum. I think all will be willing to give it a try, I for one just don't see to much success in it.

I hope I am proved wrong and it works well.

Robin

 

[garyjd]

Robin, Only Gordy and the Pf staff can explain the "why now" part of this new discussion. There may have been something behind the scenes we are not aware of. I also do not want to suggest that this be closed to anyone. I still believe folks are reading far too much into this. What should go in the painting or sculpting discussions for that matter? As for "lightning rod" posts, maybe this will limit the nasty exchanges that have taken place in the past. Although I'm sure such exchanges could occur when folks with the same interest could possibly clash over details of a given subject, but that is something that will have to be delt with if/when it should happen. Let's sit back and see what happens because until then all the "what ifs" and "predictions" are just that.~Gary

 

[Dani A.]

I cannot possibly more dissagree.

What is perfectly correct. I assume you have initiated this thread is order to promote some discussion about the new feature, with room both for "for" and "against" postures, as it has transpired. At least it is in that spirit I gave my opinion.

Why should this be viewed as a "ghetto or exile" and not as an elevated form of miniaturism?

"An elevated form of miniaturism" sound impressive enough, but, as a matter of fact, in your first posting, you seem to assimilate the historical accuracy tendencies with tendencies you call "caliperers" or "rivet-counters"; I would think this is not exactly complimentary. These are more or less synonimes of another popular qualificative, frequently found in these pages: "nit-picker". If the "Historicity" forum is a polite name for "The nit-pickers corner", I'm not sure this is much encouraging for prospective contributors...

Well, this quote from your second posting could lead to think, conversely, that you consider "historicity" approaches an elevated form of miniaturism. And because of this a new forum needs to be created? I'm not much sure what you mean with this. More elevated as compared to what? Why it is deemed necessary to create a space for historical miniaturists, but not for fantasy miniaturists, pseudo-historical miniaturists, or cinematic characters miniaturists, for instance? Surely they are equally respectable options, and with sizeable numbers of followers and with a potential for examples of elevated forms of miniaturism, too.

It could be inferred you have advanced this initiative as a solution to some problem. I just do not see what this problem may be. I think any question or contribution related to historical accuracy concepts could be perfectly presented in Planet Figure as it is now, and the present rules already allow for it. In fact it has been done all the time, and providing members keep good manners and the staff intervenes when there is a need for it - as it usually happens-, I do not see why it could not go on.

Two cents more.

Dani

 

[Guy]

Why do we now have the "Historicity" forum?

Plain and simple..........we had enough requests from members to start this forum. There are others in the membership who feel a need for the forum and we complied.

Guy

 

[Robin]

Again I find myself agreeing with Dani (I must find him at Euro and buy him a drink). If people have asked for it then we will see a flurry of activity in it as they have what they required.

I also agree with Gary, we ahve had our say and given our opinion for what it is worth, maybe time will now tell wether the idea is sound or not.

Robin

 

[garyjd]

~Gary

 

[Javi Mendez]

I have always found weird how people make opinios about decorating other people homes. At your own house you do whatever. While invited at the others, just enjoy it.

Javi

 

[Dani A.]

Hola Javi,

I would think you are stretching the comparison too far. Discussing about a picture hanging on your home's wall is not the same as discussing a new interactive forum, where people is intended to participate. In fact, Gordy opened a thread just for the purpose of discussion, isn't it?

BTW, now that you mention it, precisely one thing I value very much here at the Planet is that opinions can be expressed, even if not coinciding with the staff's opinion; and where discussion between members is allowed, subject to the natural good manners.

These may be concepts new to you, as they are unfortunately absent in many other sites. I would sincerely advise you to enjoy the Planet's atmosphere! :lol:

Dani