Questions From The Inexperienced

[Odins Eye]

Hi All,
Completely new to the art (science?) of 'serious' figure painting. As a modeller of forty or so years (I cut my teeth on Airfix, Tamiya and Matchbox in the 70s) I rarely included figures with my builds because even as a kid I thought the poses made them look like shop mannequins, stiff, robotic and un-natural. I'm also into art and if I drew or painted figures like that...well.
So.
Where the heck do I start after procuring a few figures to practice with?
My preferred paint for this would probably be Humbrol enamels and I've seen some great results achieved with those.
Do I assemble the whole figure first or paint parts and then assemble? Is there even a hard rule? Does it 'depend'? Do I prime with black?
I used to know one guy who's figure work I thought beautiful...I think he lived in the Czech Republic. He used Vallejo acrylics and he used them like ink...transparent and he painted layer over layer over layer. Is this a standard technique?
I know I'm firing off a lot of questions...I don't expect to get a handle on this in one day. ANY input here will be much appreciated. I'm just interested to know what techniques people use and why. Assume that I know nothing at all (which is pretty much true).
Thanks.

 

[Odins Eye]

Here are a couple of examples of my modelling. Armour is in 1/35 and aircraft are in 1/48.









As you can see...I'll build almost anything. I'd probably consider myself better at armour but I have a soft spot for WW1 aviation.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Welcome to the bliss of figure painting. Today's figures as you can probably tell, do not suffer from the static pose syndrome you note, at least not for the most part. In response to your stated plan, I would advise you not to use enamels. While some modellers do produe superb results with these, there are realtively few that use pure enamel. Some mix enamels and oils but again relatively few. In my experience enamels require a lot of skill and experience to produce decent results. And they are not really cheaper than the alternative.

The new generation of acrylics (Vallejo, Andrea et) are in my opinion the way to go. They have the advantage of being relatively inexpensive, easy to clean-up, non-toxic, they have a long shelf life, and many use them meaning that there will be a lot of readily available advice available. This advice is available through existing articles and web postings or through real time questions. You can also mix them with other brands of artists' acrylics. The paints go on very thinly and have great coverage so if you don't like something you can go over it again. You are correct that many paint in washes or thin coats with slight tone and hue transitions. Even with these excellent paints there is a learning curve to get through though.

Finally, get decent brushes and a stay wet palette and take care of them.

Goo luck

Colin

 

[Odins Eye]

Cheers Colin. My main reason for preferring Humbrols is that I live in a fairly isolated part of Australia and Vallejo are very difficult to get. I've never shopped online for consumables...probably will have to start I suppose. The Tamiya acrylics I use for models are great but they suck with a brush.

 

[MCPWilk]

I tend to use acrylics for blocking in large areas, but use enamels and oils for clothing and equipment and oils for faces.

Good luck,

Mike

 

[JonP]

I used Humbrol enamels when I got back into figures abot 20 years ago and found Bill Horan's book very useful. You can use them in a similar manner to acrylics but they take a little longer to dry and you need decent thinners. I then got into oils for horses initialy before going over to them for everything but I still use enamels on some figures in places.

Nice models by the way!

 

[Steve]

Excellent models!

 

[theBaron]

Welcome to the Planet! Your models are fantastic.

If you're looking for cheaper figures to experiment with, try plastic figures, like Airfix', or makers like Armies in Plastic, or Barzo. Heck, if you're in Oz, you can probably get those cheap plastic figures made in Hong Kong and sold in bags of 100, and try those.

The Tamiya acrylics I use for models are great but they suck with a brush.

I use Tamiya acrylics, too. You really have to thin them to brush them. They're apparently formulated for airbrushing. I used isopropyl originally to thin them, because it's cheap, but then tried Tamiya's proprietary acrylic thinner, and got the best results.

Layering is a popular technique with acrylics, yes. I tend to use them as Mike describes, I like to use them for areas and then use oils and enamels for effects.

As for assembling a figure before painting, yes, it depends. I tend to assemble the figure, leaving off bits of equipment, if it'll be hard to reach, but other times, I'll paint subassemblies, just as I would with a piece of ordnance, if I can attach them and blend the colors and hide the seams without effort.

For priming, I generally use grays, light or dark, depending on the finish colors, but there are some techniques in which the painter uses black, for the downstream effect a black undercoat can have. I'm about to use black on a different subject, not a figure as such, but a Maschinen Krieger armored fighting suit. I'll prime it with Army Painter matte black, then use acrylics for the top coat, and scuff the acrylic up to achieve a chipped and worn look. Kind of like the chipping you have on your Elefant.

I look forward to seeing your new works!

Prost!
Brad

 

[Einion]

Where the heck do I start after procuring a few figures to practice with?

What would you like to work on - scale, subject, cheap-but-good or the best sculpts possible?

My preferred paint for this would probably be Humbrol enamels and I've seen some great results achieved with those.

Humbrol is still a viable choice even if few figure modellers still use them, the results achievable do speak for themselves. Acrylic-type paints do offer many advantages. however there's a very steep learning curve and some people never get used to them. If you're comfortable with enamels - don't mind the mixing, the smell of thinners, used to their drying time etc. - then why not?

For figure modelling you may want to consider adding a few tubes of oil paint to your supplies to help with achieving certain effects (chiefly darker darks and more saturated colour) but it's not essential. Just to mention, while oils can seem expensive initially they last practically forever so even if you were spending >$30 a tube they can pay for themselves over time; but there many brands much cheaper than that.

Do I assemble the whole figure first or paint parts and then assemble? Is there even a hard rule? Does it 'depend'?

Yes it depends. The main issue is access - can I get a brush to everything I need to? If the answer is yes then you can fully assemble the model and then prime and paint, if not some painting of subassemblies is needed.

Do I prime with black?

If you like yes. See this recent thread for opinions on the subject.

I used to know one guy who's figure work I thought beautiful...I think he lived in the Czech Republic. He used Vallejo acrylics and he used them like ink...transparent and he painted layer over layer over layer. Is this a standard technique?

To a degree, yes. Layering is the way to use acrylic-type paints for high-end results, although you don't always thin them quite that much. Definitely for the most subtle work though.

The Tamiya acrylics I use for models are great but they suck with a brush.

They're really not advisable for the kinds of painting needed for figure work. Maybe for initial blocking in of colour but you'll just be fighting them the whole time trying to do more refined techniques. The only Tamiya colours I'd recommend for figure painting generally would be the clears, Smoke in particular can be very useful. Plus X-21 if you ever have trouble with colours drying less matt than you'd like.

You models look fab BTW. With that kind of high standard you'll do well with 'serious' figure painting

Einion

 

[Helm]

As the others have said nice models, re assembling the figures no hard rule same as an AFV really paint what will be awkward/impossible to paint when assembled and go from there, re paints I find the Citadel paints are pretty good and G.W. seems to have branches everywhere, I use enamels for metallics or glossy leather thats about it. Primer, plain old car primer does the job every time. As to techniques that's something really you have to get a feel for yourself as everyone works differently, my advice is to look here at peoples work in WIP/Painting forums etc find a style you like and ask the author, I've had no end of invaluable advice from so many fantastic painters here it's not true.
Steve

 

[Odins Eye]

Gentlemen I'm in your debt. A great range of info and advice and some nice comments about my models...what could be better?
As it happens, I have a few of those soft plastic Airfix figures left over from my childhood...some of the Humbrol paint is still left on them. I also have several sets of Tamiya figures that I bought on eBay a couple of years ago...I knew my figures needed a lot of work and that I'd need something to practice on. To be sure I have two beautiful sets of Alpine's resin figures...a pair of figures in each with heads to choose from...not yet.
No stranger to using oil paint Einion...both in modelling and painting on canvas...I have a pretty comprehensive set of decent paints and some nice brushes too.
So at the moment, I've started a new project that will require me to use a set of my Alpine figs...the Soviet tank crew. Seems that while it dries I'll be honing my figure painting skills.
I think I'm going to dive in the deep end and just get going on one as a start...do what I think is right and post the results here somewhere. I'm sure you kind folks can steer me in the right direction and don't sugar coat for me please...I can take critique no worries. Thanks again people...I appreciate your time and input.

 

[NickM]

Great models there, Nick. Your armour is fantastic, nice weathering and paint chipping. The aircraft are great too.
Until a few years ago I used Humrols for painting uniforms and equipment, but I would recommend you give Vallejo Acrylics a go if you can. They take a bit of practice, but I now much prefer working with them. Acrylics are a bit different, in that you work in diluted layers, building up the colour depth, shadows and highlights.

I guess my biggest recommendation would be trying oils for the flesh areas though. Flesh is one area I found Humbrols didn't cut it. Some guys here use acrylics with fantastic results, but I find that oils give the flesh great depth of colour, really allow you to blend the various tones nicely and have the added benefit of staying wet and workable for ages. I use mixes of Windsor & Newton Burnt Umber, Yellow Ochre and Cadmium Red, lightened with Titanium White and a touch Cadmium Yellow to the white for highlights.

Just have a play and find what works for you. I can see you're already a great modeler mate, so I've no doubt you'll get the hang of it really quickly.
Cheers

 

[sippog]

To add my 2 cents worth -

If you're a little insecure about painting technique, seek out the many video tutorials on YouTube and other sites, like Tutofig. Personally I find watching someone do something is the best way to learn any practical skills. There is a lot of material on the web as well as downloadable figure-painting courses.

Second piece of advice: look outside your area of interest. You may have little or no interest in painting goblins and space marines for example but a great many video painting tutorials done by enthusiasts (and there are lots of 'em) contain transferable bits of advice. Heck, I've even learned stuff from AFV tutorials.

 

[Tubby-Nuts2]

Odin, Like yourself I started with AVF ! .. before moving to figures a few years ago! judging by your completed kits above, you are no stranger to airbrushing, a handy tool, depending on which scale of figure you go for. I started with Verlinden's 120mm figures! .. and gradually scaled down to 90mm! However! don't be disappointed, with your first few runs! it is a huge learning curve, but ultimately worth it!. More than one kit, went into the bin, which should not have! ... Oh, to have them back !!! LOL!

Regards,

Mark

 

[Odins Eye]

Thanks again guys.
I'm no stranger to oil paints, have almost no insecurity about trying new stuff or showing you my first attempts and sippog, I know what you mean about watching and learning from those who do different stuff. I've been an almost exclusive WW2 modeller for years but I've been exploring WW1 aviation because it's WELL challenging and outside my comfort zone. Some of my favourite modelling memories however are those that concern my building of those old Airfix 54mm Napoleonic kits. There was the Bengal Lancer as well but the Highlander, the Imperial Guardsman and the 95th Rifleman...I LOVED those old clunkers and I've even gone so far as to search for them on eBay. Found them but sellers want a fortune for 'em.
Started cleaning up parts for an old Tamiya 1/35 Panzer Grenadier...just one of the old sets I bought a while back. They're pretty poor mouldings but will be great for practicing on.
Right...so now I'm off to YouTube to take sippog's advice.
Cheers all.

 

[tonydawe]

Hi Odin,

In order to practice the art/ science of figure painting you actually don't need to purchase any new figures. You can take out your old 1/35th scale figures and practice your techniques on them if you want to.

Ultimately, if you want to get the best results, it helps to purchase a good figure. Sadly your options are very limited in Tassie and unless you learn to overcome your lack of internet purchasing skills.

Given the quality of your aircraft and AFV models, I have absolutely no doubt that you will make the transition from figure novice very quickly and will see huge leaps in your techniques.

I've been modelling for over 40 years and been figure modelling for 20 of those years, and my technique continues to evolve and (I hope) improve with every figure/ bust I paint. The key is to open yourself up to taking risks, be experimental and take the best bits of information you can from those modellers you admire and respect and then develop your own style and technique that works for you.

 

[Odins Eye]

Thanks Tony.
I don't mind buying stuff online...I have two sets of Alpine figures but at $34.00 Aussie a pop I don't want to practice on them.
Cleaning up parts from Tamiya's Panzer Grenadier set as I type. I can already see that the feet aren't long enough and all the fingers are the same length! Onwards and upwards.

 

[Funky50]

To be honest practising on inferior quality figures is a bit self defeating nobody can make a poorly cast or sculpted figure look much good so I would say take the plunge on the alpine figures and if they don't come out as you would like you can always strip them back and start again....as they say you can't make a goodun out of a badun so be brave its the only way to learn in the long run and you might surprise yourself from what I can see of your postings your pretty good ....just my tuppence worth....all the best and enjoy

 

[Rich Sculpts]

To be honest practising on inferior quality figures is a bit self defeating nobody can make a poorly cast or sculpted figure look much good so I would say take the plunge on the alpine figures and if they don't come out as you would like you can always strip them back and start again....as they say you can't make a goodun out of a badun so be brave its the only way to learn in the long run and you might surprise yourself from what I can see of your postings your pretty good ....just my tuppence worth....all the best and enjoy

Sorry Funky50 I really have to beg to differ...

... its the very practice of using inferior quality figures that have produced some the finest art work in our community.

When you look back at the "real masters" they cut they're teeth on some pretty rough castings in they're time. They took what was available in the marketplace, looked hard at what was offered and dared to push the boundaries. They made 'silk purses from sows ears' from high volume plastic kits, indifferent white metal castings and kids toys. They learnt the hard way to making art out of hobby supplies. The result?

What you see on this forum today- high art in miniature.

You don't buy the skills (seen a lot of painted sows ears bought from silk purses in my time) you earn it from turning trash into treasure.

My advice to Odins Eye?

Take your Humbrol paints, the Tamiya figures and see how you can make them better than they are.

As for the quote "nobody can make a poorly cast or sculpted figure look much good" - I leave that open for discussion....

 

[T50]

Although I like to see old kits being detailed up and brought up to
today's standard, it is a LOT of work to make old Tamiya fig to look
"presentable" and "contemporary" with some nice Humbrol paint job.
If you are not skilled enough, it can go the other way.

I am not sure if it would be worth it for the most of the modelers to even try.

If it was worth it, then what is the point of trying to sculpt better figures?

Not trying to argue. Just a thought...