Reverse Shading, Whilst Painting In 'white'.

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

This aspect may have been covered before! However, for my own curiosity?... Whilst painting 'Folds', in clothing, especially in 'White', granted, not the easiest colour to work with. I was wondering, how many of you guys 'Highlight, the 'Top', folds of a given garment with the highest highlight?. ie (pure-White).. and darken the inner-folds?........ I am only asking, because I have been wearing a 'White/Cream', fleece type jacket for the last several days, in London, and have found (prior to washing), that the inner folds, are still very much white! due to being protected by the top folds!.. So, the top folds, that have been exposed to the 'Muck and Grime', are really filthy!.. Which has me wondering?... how would this apspect transfer to a figure?.........Bit of a thinker!

 

[DEL]

This is an old itch of mine Mark you're dead right the more 'exposed' surface should in the normal course of events be dirtier.
But as most of us paint a figure with assumed zenithal light it's all about shading, the weathering needs to be adjusted accordingly to create the illusion.
What really drives me crazy is figures with knee length garments where the hem has been weathered as if it had been dragging along the ground and yet the seat which would be manky is as often as not spotless.
Derek

 

[billyturnip]

In a similar vein and it was mentioned in a thread recently, the hair underneath a horse usually lighter but shaded with Zenithal light should surely be darker than the upper part.... shouldn't it?

 

[Einion]

This is more weathering than a shading thing, since it's dirt of some kind you'd be representing.

This kind of thing is seen very often on lighter-coloured garments in in the right circumstances and is represented in painted models every now and then. I think most people avoid trying it though because it can look like a mistake. The times I can most recall it being done are for WWII winter whites and on gambesons or similar padded garments which can get particularly filthy, leaving very obvious pale creasing in a regular pattern because of the quilting.

There's a similar effect sometimes seen on faces, where if you're getting covered in soot or spattered with dirty water etc. once you stop squinting it leaves a pale star-like pattern at the sides of the eyes.

In a similar vein and it was mentioned in a thread recently, the hair underneath a horse usually lighter but shaded with Zenithal light should surely be darker than the upper part.... shouldn't it?

Depends on the 'local colour', but yes, shaded it could end up being darker/as dark. Just a bit up from the very bottom though, on the undersides of the flanks*, you should often see that the colour of the coat is lighter - as is evident looking at such a horse IRL.

*Stop-Sign Rule zone 4.

Einion

 

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

Derek!...... now! what you have there is a, 'Bloody-Good', point.... As I was thinking cloaked, and longer garments. but yes! I never thought about the arse area! ... as you rightly say, that would also be mucked-up, and worn!

Mark

 

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

Einion,..... when it comes to reproducing this element on a figure, how much difference would there be between weathering, and shading! whilst dealing with 'Whites'.... But there in lies another question! people think its a mistake, over actuallity! So to avoid this, does one highlight in the usual way, that darken with weathering?.. that seems slightly non-sensical, but I am here to learn.

Mark

 

[kagemusha]

With regard to the underside of horses, I have always understood that the coat and skin are thinner in the belly area, therefore the colour tends to be lighter. It appears darker depending on available light, i.e. the position of the sun. What also comes into play is the ground the horse is on and its reflective properties. I agree with Dereks point and Marks observation with regard to the folds in white clothing which is notoriously difficult to replicate. Personally I always avoid pure white hi-lites as white picks up its tone from surrounding colours.

Ron

 

[chippy]

Mark a good question because the same is true with quilted garments . ( I've just looked at my anorak ) because the inner stiching stays lighter than the raised areas which actually get grubbier first although most people paint quilted garments , mostly on medieval figures with the inner stitching being darker and then lighting the diamond sections lighter on top the higher relief where as it should be the other way around as it is this part that gets grubbier first .
But at the end of the day I think we all paint what we think we should see and not actually what we see .
chippy

 

[Einion]

Einion,..... when it comes to reproducing this element on a figure, how much difference would there be between weathering, and shading!

Just for clarity: weathering - dirt effect, shading - lighting effect.

Reverse shading is actually a thing, but it relates to underlighting (as you might want to replicate if a part of a subject were lit from a campfire for example).

But there in lies another question! people think its a mistake, over actuallity! So to avoid this, does one highlight in the usual way, that darken with weathering?.. that seems slightly non-sensical, but I am here to learn.

There are a few things like this, where if you paint a truly miniaturised reproduction of the real deal it tends to look wrong (or at least less aesthetically pleasing, which is more important than anything for a lot of us). I think bottom line you have to try things like this, see how they turn out and how happy you are with the way they look.

Einion

 

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

Enion,.. Clearly such matters will require some experimentation, to polarize and capture, the effect in miniature(s)..... It may be one of those questions, that have so many ambigous answers, it would be difficult to settle on a definitive answer.... However, does the light-source, then overide, the darker, physical aspect of weathering.... Which would only highlight, the darkness of the top- folds!....... therefore, negating 'Highlights'....

Mark

 

[Paul Kernan]

Similar concept, I first came across while reading my son's Warhammer mags years ago. When painting jewels, the shading was on top while the highlighting was placed at the bottom due to refracted light.

 

[Carlos69]

Interesting point, I'm keen to try painting WWII German white sound out in this way, as looking at the real thing and many images these garments diss-colour easily and quickly often leaving white crease's with the tops of folds etc taking on dirt and appearing as if reverse shaded. But we are use to seeing it the other way round so can look wrong if carried out poorly. I try to add similar effects to the lower half of padded white winter trousers, I work some earth tones in to the lower half with oil paint when basecoating with oils, once dry I add some midtones to the bottom part of the trousers highlights and as I get higher up the garment use more and more white in the highlights, giving a similar effect. Will see if I have some images to post here to better explain.

Would work very well on winter white side out quilted Fallschirmjager gear.


Carlos

 

[Carlos69]

Heres an image where I tried to replictae that, the image quality is poor as usuall for me but you can get an idea .... here in 35th scale.

I think it would work better in a larger scale tbh.

Carlos

 

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

Carlos, Excellent work, especially at 1/35th. To my mind you have massively suceeded!. (Been staring at these pic's for ten minutes.).... There absolutly nothing wrong to the eye at all. Well done!.. So! is it fact? that we have maybe become indoctrinated into thinking directional light source, over-rides! the effect of weathering!.. Especially with whites!

Good stuff Carlos!

Mark

 

[Tubby-Nuts-REMOVED]

Carlos,... was your base coat grey?... then worked up the white element?

Mark