sculpting advise

[kinggeorges]

Dear Planeters,

I plan to convert a good ol Hornet figure for a small vignette on BEF at Dunkirk.
While redoing the officer right arm, I wonder if I should also redo the end of the shoulder patch to make a fold, as per the picture below, as I feel the shoulder patch should naturally bend with his right in such a position. Any help more than welcomed.

Cheers
Julien

 

[valiant]

You would need to move the right shoulder up and add creases to the tunic. Stand in front of the mirror and adopt the stance and youll see what I mean

 

[Ferris]

Yes, definitely raise the shoulder. Will look very unnatural otherwise.

 

[Wayneb]

Visualize the skeletal structure and movement of the clothing ......

 

[Warren SMITH]

I just followed Valiant's advice, it is impossible to raise your arm without raising your shoulder...even whilst drinking beer..

 

[svt]

Yes, the clothes there will change a lot, and characteristic wrinkles will appear not only on the shoulder, but also on the chest. But initially it is necessary to correct the anatomy - when a person raises his arm, the higher the elbow rises relative to the shoulder joint, the higher the shoulder joint rises, moving up, according to anatomical mechanics. At the same time, the joint of the non-raised arm will slightly drop down, and the spine will slightly deviate towards the lowered arm, balancing the figure. In the end, everything should look something like the one shown in this diagram.

 

[Ferris]

Perhaps this helps as well:

 

[kinggeorges]

Thanks à lot guys for your feedbacks. Very highly appreciated. I'm now scared to heavily modify the Hornet figure, as it implies some heavy lifting if I want to do it properly..

 

[theBaron]

...I'm now scared to heavily modify the Hornet figure, as it implies some heavy lifting if I want to do it properly..

Don't be afraid to try it; it's the only way you'll learn. But perhaps practice on a "sacrifical" figure first instead of your kit figure. And as svt notes, yes, the clothing will change to reflect the pose, including the shoulder patch. The tip to look in the mirror is a good one. Watch your own shoulder and clothing to see how the cloth moves.

Prost!
Brad

 

[MCPWilk]

Full scapulo-thoracic excertion only happens with full elevation, so with partial elevation you would not have to lift the shoulder too much. Look at photos of soldiers etc. saluting - there is usually only slight shoulder elevation.

Mike

 

[svt]

Full scapulo-thoracic excertion only happens with full elevation, so with partial elevation you would not have to lift the shoulder too much. Look at photos of soldiers etc. saluting - there is usually only slight shoulder elevation.

It was not in vain that I wrote above that the higher the elbow rises relative to the shoulder joint, the higher the shoulder joint rises. On the proposed version of the figurine upgrade, the character does not salute, but covers his eyes from the sun with his palm - this is a completely different position of the whole hand.
Look at these photos:
- here a person salutes, the elbow is raised no higher than the shoulder, therefore it is almost not noticeable that the shoulder has risen, especially since part of the anatomy is significantly hidden by the cut of the uniform, which has shoulder reinforcing inserts, as well as rigid shoulder boards that do not allow the fabric to deform unnecessarily.


- in this photo, all three people raised their elbows a little higher, all of them have a soft cut of the shoulders of their uniforms, the lady in the center has epaulettes, but they are soft, not preventing clothing from deforming. The shoulders are already clearly higher, and even the fabric has given powerful wrinkles in the shoulders and on the chest.


- and now a couple of photos of people covering their eyes with their palms - as you can see, the shoulders are much higher.

 

[MCPWilk]

The figure on the left has mainly gleno-humeral rotation, it is the bulk of the deltoid which has raised the shoulder outline; the figure on the left has much greater scapulo-thoracic elevation.

Mike

 

[kinggeorges]

Dear Planeteers,
Thanks a million for al those advises, very much appreciated.
Still the amount of conversion needed scared me a bit, and given it's a hornet figure kind of rare to find now, I didn't want to ruin it.
I painted the little guy head. Starting the side cap now
Two questions:
1) can someone identify the side cap badge ? I looked on internet, there are hundreds !! As a reminder he's supposed to be part of a Dunkirk vignette. I don't know if the badge will be coherent, otherwise I will make him look different, or will scuplt a new one.
2) re color, I used vallejo 70921 english uniform, but I find the colour a bit yellowish. I thougt the tommies worn more brownish uniform. Actually first time I paint a ww2 brit
Keeping on keeping
Best,
Julien

 

[kinggeorges]

ups, pressed the "post button" too fast..

 

[Ferris]

Nice work on the face!

Adrian

 

[kinggeorges]

Thanks a lot Adrian.
Any specialist of british uniformology willing to help?

 

[Banjer]

Hi Julien,

When I joined the British army in the 1960's we were issued battledress trousers for everyday wear and I would say your colour is pretty close.

Here is a link to a book of WW2 British badges, I don't have it but I do have a book with cap badges which is not specific to WW2 which I can refer to if you have a particular regiment in mind.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/british-army-cap-badges-of-the-second-world-war-9780747811107/

Cheers

Bill

 

[razor]

At a guess the badge is very close to the Royal engineers, I have books of British uniforms and several real uniforms if you want a colour match.
Hope this might be of use.
Paul