Sculpting feathers

[Yarok]

Hello!

First of all my best wishes for 2006! May it be filled with modelling clays and paint splatters! I've registered quite some time ago, silently looking around in awe.. Now i've decided to post my first question over the sculpting of feathers.

How do you guys do that? I've tried Duro and Magic Sculp over the thinnest plastic card, but the result is too flat an unnatural. I've tried lead foil, which can "flow" correctly but remains too thick. I've also tried to sculpt one side over baking paper so that it won't stick, then sculpt the other side. The result, although correctly detailed, remained extremely brittle and fragile (and desperately flat...)

I've done numerous PiliPili figures and they all have those wonderfully sculpted feathers from the straight and rigid eagle feathers of the indians to the soft and flowing ostrich feathers like the ones on the Musketeer and Cavalier hats. Thus, my question is naturally oriented to Quang, but if anyone has an idea or a particular technique to share, I'm all ears

Thanks!

 

[Einion]

I like to make feathers as thin as possible in most scales so I try to use aluminium foil. I cut them roughly to shape, then the texture is scratched in with the tip of a needle and cut with a sharp craft knife here and there, followed by a final trimming to shape (I find scissors are often better for this than cutting with a knife).

For larger scales like busts or for something like ostrich feathers I might sculpt one from putty, generally I would now use Kneadatite for this as its flexibility helps prevent breakage afterwards although obviously it's best to handle them as little as possible regardless! Adding texture to both sides is a very tricky thing and I would generally try to avoid this myself as it's very difficult to end up with something close to scale, so you have trade off between the texture you want and the thickness.

Einion

 

[Yarok]

Thank you for the info

When you use aluminum foil, do you represent the central "ridge" as well? Or do you do something about it afterwards, like glueing a thin copper (or whatever) rod in the middle?

 

[quang]

Hello Patrick,

My feathers are made exclusively from putty (Duro+MS mix).

1. The putty is rolled to paper thin thickness.

2. The raised central 'ridge' is created by pushing the putty down on both sides of the ridge with the flat of an X-Acto blade.

3. Details are then 'impressed' on both sides of the ridge using the same X-Acto blade.

4. Cut the feather to size and leave to cure.

5. When the putty's cured, repeat on the other side.

The trick is to do it ONE SIDE AT A TIME.

Hope this helps.

Quang

 

[Roc]

Quang, thanks for explaining, you made it crystal clear.

Cheers
Roc.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Yarok@Jan 9 2006, 06:49 PM
Thank you for the info

When you use aluminum foil, do you represent the central "ridge" as well? Or do you do something about it afterwards, like glueing a thin copper (or whatever) rod in the middle?

You're welcome, glad to try to help. For smaller feathers I sometimes don't bother even trying to represent a rachis, just score the detail out from a centreline. We should bear in mind how narrow these can actually be - for 54mm figures for example, divided by 32 even a 5mm quill is only 0.16 mm!

For larger feathers and larger scales where you can clearly see them I might use a rounded tool to impress this from the back. If I did want to add it later I would use putty as I've seen attempts to do this with wire and round rod and the result, to me, looks like that - something round stuck on the surface - instead of a rounded bump on a 'flat' plane.

If you want to consider it and you're working in an appropriate scale the superb feathers on Poste Militaire's busts were made this way: a rachis (I think made from putty) was laid down, then each 'barb' was formed individually and stuck in place; when set the reverse was added in the same way.

Like with representing mail we have to sort of decide for ourselves how stylised we want to go with feathers - closer to being in scale but difficult to see clearly (and much more difficult to cast cleanly), deliberately overscale but arresting visually (but much easier to cast), or somewhere in between. Without casting considerations I'd always aim to be as close to scale as possible, so while the Poste Mil feathers look impressive and I do quite like them the thickness bothers me, which is why I wouldn't do this myself if I had a choice.

Einion

 

[Yarok]

Thanks Einon and Quang for your answers! I find them very helpful, and I might just stick with the "one side at a time" technique

I'm thinking about first putting a blob of BluTack on my working area, then lay a piece of baking sheet over it. This would allow me to give the sheet some kind of curve, so I wouldn't have to bend it afterwards.

Einon, I did not know that the Poste Militaire feathers were built this way! I will look at my Rainy Mountain Charlie with a different eye, now :lol:

One more question: I suppose that for the bigger feathers (like ostriches), you first lay the volumes, allow it to cure, then sculpt the details in?

 

[quang]

Hello Patrick,

To impart a slight bend to your feather, detach it from the support (baking sheet,... I use a ceramic tile with plenty of talcum powder) after all the details are done, tease it with a paintbrush to give the curve you wish and leave it to harden.

Note that in most cases, the 'rachis' is rather straight. On the other hand, the 'barbs' on either side are rarely symmetrical. I'd suggest you study the real thing.

One more question: I suppose that for the bigger feathers (like ostriches), you first lay the volumes, allow it to cure, then sculpt the details in?

You got it!

HTH
Q.

 

[Yarok]

Thanks a lot!

After that, it's the usual deal: practice, study of the real stuff, mess everything up, despair, study again, practice some more and succeed (eventually) :lol:

 

[quang]

Originally posted by Yarok@Jan 10 2006, 09:23 AM

After that, it's the usual deal: practice, study of the real stuff, mess everything up, despair, study again, practice some more and succeed (eventually) :lol:

Again, you got it.

Q.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Yarok+Jan 10 2006, 09:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Yarok @ Jan 10 2006, 09:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>One more question: I suppose that for the bigger feathers (like ostriches), you first lay the volumes, allow it to cure, then sculpt the details in?[/b]

No, apart from the fact that I'd normally use Kneadatite, which isn't really suited to carving, I try not to carve, sand, pare or whittle as much as possible for irregular/organic shapes, I much prefer sculpting 'wet' because it's usually more accurate (and easier!) but also a lot faster.

Last time I did this - for a pair of feathers for a Landsknecht - I made each separately, roughly forming the shape, adding the detail with some sharp tools and then doing some final trimming and separation of some of the barbs near the tips. I'm trying to remember what I did these on and I may have just used a small glass jar instead of forming them flat on a block wrapped in plastic food wrap, which I'll often use. In that case I would have taken the plastic off the block when the putty was nearly cured and laid it on a round former to give the feathers their final curve.

If you want to do feathers or other details like this flat for ease and you're not in your workroom at the time (like if you work last thing at night and you're asleep when the putty hardens) most of the common two-part putties become a little flexible when heated and you can then bend them, especially within about twelve hours or so, when both MS and AS are still a little rubbery.

Quang raises a good point about feathers not being symmetrical which I was going to mention. Tail feathers can be symmetrical, or nearly so, but primary and secondary flight feathers (which are often what one would be representing) are very asymmetrical for aerodynamic reasons, comme ça:
http://www.earthcirclesminnesota.com/image...e_geo_et3.0.jpg
http://www.eidnesfurs.com/images/disk2/mvc-015s.jpg

<!--QuoteBegin-Yarok@Jan 10 2006, 03:23 PM
After that, it's the usual deal: practice, study of the real stuff, mess everything up, despair, study again, practice some more and succeed (eventually)[/quote]
That sounds familiar :lol:

Einion

 

[Yarok]

Sorry, by "allow it to cure, then sculpt the details in", I meant: allow the volumes to cure, then add a thin layer of fresh putty and sculpt it, much like the way clothes - lets say a sleeve - are done: first flesh out the arm, then sculpt the wrinkles.

Einon, those are some good tips you give thee: the plastic food wrap and heating the putty. I wouldn't have thought of the latter, because I tend to put my remaining putty or unfinished work of the evening in the freezer to slow the polymerization time down

And thanks for the info on the feathers being assymetrical - even though I was aware of that, it's the kind of thing that can slip my mind when i'm too focused on sculpting (you know, the "tongue slightly sticking out" look...)