Sgt Major 1st Foot Scots Fusilier Guards - Crimea

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BESPJL

A Fixture
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
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755
Location
Carcavelos, Portugal
Hi all,

I have on the bench one more project to start:

a Sergeant Major 1st Foot Scots Fusiliers Guards - Crimea 1854 from Roll Call

what I would like to know is with its use the red of the tunic fades to which tone of red?

Thank you in advance.

Cheers,
Paulo
 
Paulo, British uniforms of the period were dyed with madder. Basically they were a slightly dull scarlet (orange-red) or red in colour - this is sometimes referred to as brick red which can give a better mental image of what it was like.

Here are some photos showing the colours it might be:
http://www.toranahouse.com/images/madder2t.jpg
http://www.englishcivilwar.com/Images/Misc Pictures/pikelrg.jpg
http://www.instructables.com/image/FU9KLMVFDTDOC65/Dyeing-Wool-Yarn-with-Madder-Root.jpg

As it fades or washes out the colour will become duller, lighter and generally more orange; in areas of extreme wear the colour could come close to that of the base fabric, unbleached wool. So the range could go something like this:

Possible_Madder_Steps.jpg


Einion
 
Thank you Gordy and Anders for your help.

The thing is they fought with the red tunics but due to weather conditions and wear the red of the tunics lost the brilliance it had (dye issue). In the officers case since they could afford the red would become a matt one, and for the soldiers the red would become a brick one. This is what I expect based on the Napoleonic info that I've read. Perhaps I'm wrong. But the NCO's which line should they follow?

If nothing more certain appears (and since I'll be painting with acrylics) I'll follow Anders advice.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Paulo
 
I use the Games Workshop Mechrite Red as a base, this has the rich brick colour that I understand the soldier's jackets faded to.
 
I use the Games Workshop Mechrite Red as a base, this has the rich brick colour that I understand the soldier's jackets faded to.

Good colour, but I would add a touch of Tamiya X21 (flatbase) to it. As I have found it can dry with a bit of a sheen.
Carl.
 
Paulo, British uniforms of the period were dyed with madder. Basically they were a slightly dull scarlet (orange-red) or red in colour - this is sometimes referred to as brick red which can give a better mental image of what it was like.

Here are some photos showing the colours it might be:
http://www.toranahouse.com/images/madder2t.jpg
http://www.englishcivilwar.com/Images/Misc Pictures/pikelrg.jpg
http://www.instructables.com/image/FU9KLMVFDTDOC65/Dyeing-Wool-Yarn-with-Madder-Root.jpg

As it fades or washes out the colour will become duller, lighter and generally more orange; in areas of extreme wear the colour could come close to that of the base fabric, unbleached wool. So the range could go something like this:

Possible_Madder_Steps.jpg


Einion

Einion,

you're priceless.
Thank you very much.

Cheers,
Paulo
 
Einion is my "colour expert", but here we are not looking at a colour, but a dye. Like the cochineal dye that produced the officer's scarlet coatees (O.R.'s would get theirs stained with this dye later in the century) but also, on occasion, the crimson for their sashes, madder could produce different reds according to how much and what kind of mordant, etc was put in the dyeing mix. For a comparison between "British" or bright madder, which looks very much like cochineal scarlet, and that used by Americans in the civil war, for example, see here: http://www.jarnaginco.com/18th century wool samples.htm
According to the Osprey Grenadier Guards book, madder coatees in the Crimea "faded to a purplish brown, the blue facings faded, and the overcoats became more brown than grey."
So the good news is that you have plenty of leeway. Did your sergeant just come out from England, or had he spent nearly two years in the Crimea with no change of uniform? You can make up your own back story to match your colour!
 
Philip,

Thank you for your insight.

The Sgt Maj will be placed in the after of Alma or prior to Inkerman.
Any tips on Vallejo numbers?

Does anyone have a color pic of the rank chevron used on both arms?

Cheers,
Paulo
 
Sorry Paolo, that brick red description refers to other ranks! Officers and sergeants had scarlet tunics, so the colour would start off more vivid than I indicated above (same dye, but better cloth and mordant). If you want to indicate fading or washing out the same basic idea though - it would tend to go slightly toward orange. So possibly something like this:

Possible_Scarlet_Steps.jpg


Phil's quote from the Osprey book is a good example of how careful we have to be with verbal descriptions of colour, particularly from non-specialists - "purplish brown" is actually an impossible colour; brown and purple are mutually exclusive.

Einion
 
This is getting to be an interesting thread! First, Paulo, when you speak of a Sgt Major 1st Foot Scots Fusilier Guards - Crimea, are you referring to the first battalion of the 3rd foot guards, the Scots Fusilier Guards, or the 1st regiment of foot, who in the seventies became the Royal Scots Regiment. Unfortunately, both served both at the Alma and Inkerman, but I assume that you mean the Scots Guards.
At that time, all guards R.S.M.s wore four stripes, as you note, on both sleeves. The stripes were gold on a blue backing, but were sown on separately so that a sliver of the red sleeve showed between them
As for colours, I don't know the Vallejo colours, but you could probably make life easy for yourself by getting the six-bottle Andrea red set. that way you can control the final brightness very precisely, and if you want even brighter scarlet highlights, add a tiny drop of yellow. Check them against Einion's useful colour guide.
Einion! I think that the "purplish brown" was something like puce. I'm not sure whether you were objecting to the colour or how it was described!
I completely agree, of course, that senior NCO's had scarlet coats like officers, but the dye was very different. Madder comes from the root of the madder plant (surprise!), while both the officers' scarlet coats and the crimson of their sashes, at that time, were made from the ground up corpses of tiny cochineal insects, which was more expensive. Later in the century, the madder dye was phased out and cochineal used universally.
I really look forward to seeing the finished figure!
 
Philip and Einion,

Thank you for your help.
The figurine in question is this one of the attachments.

I don't mean to question your info but I read in Osprey - British Army in Campaign 2 - Crimea that the red of the coattes turned 'Port-Wine Colour' (page 33).

Philip, I think it's like you said: Scots Guards

Roger,

Thank you for the pic.
My trouble is the badge the is on top of the 4 stripes. I looked in the web but since I don't know what it really looks like I have troble with the symbols and colors.

Thanks for the help.

Cheers,
Paulo
 

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bernhart said:
have read somewhere were the dye from the jackets would run onto the trousers stai ning the tops of them (during the pennisular war)
This effect wasn't that uncommon with vegetable dyes, given the right circumstances... there's an account of French infantry in blue coats and sky-blue trousers (from the woad/indigo washing out into the trousers).

We can still see this same thing today with jeans occasionally!


PhilinYuma said:
Einion! I think that the "purplish brown" was something like puce. I'm not sure whether you were objecting to the colour or how it was described!
How they described it.

Einion
 
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