Shapeways Improving By Microns

[RKapuaala]

I recieved these prints from Shapeways Friday. The Arab rebel is 1:32 scale (about 1.875 inches tall). Cy Crumley in 7/8ths scale is by far the best print I have recieved so far. He is the figure in the middle and stands about 5.3 inches tall from the ground to the top of his fingers. The next one is Cy in 1:20.32 scale roughly about 3.5 inches tall.
This image shows the figures completely dewaxed. I have perfect that process to a science now after many attempts. The Rebel and large Cy have had their frosted patches polished some what.

This is a close up of 7/8ths Cy's right profile. You will note that there is a frosty area that extends from the back of the neck to the middle of his temple and mid way over his jaw. It looks like paint but is a delicate layer of pitted acrylic material. The pitting happens where the acrylic material comes in contact with the support material. In the past I have recieved prints where this pitting is so bad it destroys all the detail of the print and makes it impossible (IMHO) for shapeways to claim .1mm detail levels, but this print is not bad at all.

The pitting was easily rubbed out with bakingsoda on a tooth brush and a soft sanding pad. I put a thin coat of primer on the model to make sure my buffing was successful. I use gray because white seems to conceal the imperfections.
The 1:20 wasn't too bad either.

Even though they chose to support the model on its face for this print. As you can see in this image the frosting covers the whole face and most of the front with a thin layer. I did not buff this out because it look very clean, and I did not want to remove any of the detail.

But after a coat of primer, I can see that clearly it will need a little work. I have to say though, compared to some of the other 1:20 scale figures I have recieved the detail is remarkable. You can even see the hands on watch on the 1:20 scales just as clearly as you can on the 7/8th scale.

This is the 7/8ths scale watch. The little fob thingy at the top busted off on the 7/8ths scale watch and was not shipped with the model. But the fob thingy is intact on the 1:20 scale. Note that the hands are clearly visible,,, they are also this visible on the 1:20 scale watch.

I was very impressed with how well the 7/8ths scale chain ornament turned out. You can see the tiny letter C on the cross and even make out some of the detail in the top part where the chain connects. That whole cross piece is only 1/16th of an inch high.

Even the seams and eyeholes for the laces came out with good detail on the 7/8ths scale despite the frosting that covered almost half of the shoe.

 

[RKapuaala]

The detail on the 1:32 scalse arab was not really all that bad either. You can almost make out the buttons on his ammo pouches and his slight mustach. There are still some registration marks here and there, and I'm not sure how to handle those.

But then some details like the toes and the straps of the sandals are incredibly good considering the size of the detail.
I won't do anything else on the Arab Rebel because I don't intend to cast or paint him. He is good enough as is to add to my collection of 1:32 scale figures,,,, which I don't paint either, but just admire in their sincere form.

 

[Meehan34]

those look pretty good but it is clear that the 3D printing has a little ways to go before they can compete with clay sculpting. I wonder what printer Andrea used for their space marine line?

 

[RKapuaala]

Meehan,
There are better printers out there that use better materials. Wax detail is measure in microns and the detail is incredibly fine. But they are much more expensive to print than acrylic and extremely fragile. The trade off is using the acrylic and then cleaning it up.
Clay can also have tool marks and other characteristics that show its hand made, but I prefer the handmade 'flaws' over the machine 'flaws' anyday. Tooling marks in clay just show that someone's hand made the figure and that I like that.

 

[darkeye]

not bad prints at all Richard . i still wonder if it would be cheaper to do by hand and silicone. i agree with Meehan that they still have some ways to go yet. maybe its just down to what machine(s) the Printers own. soon as i find employ and have some spare, i intend to find out for myself...

If its not rude, what did they sting you for each size buddy?

atb --tim

 

[RKapuaala]

The largest one was 57 usd and the smallest was 11 usd. Not rude at all Tim. We need to help each other out with as much info as possible.

 

[darkeye]

wow, those are very good prices and certainly worth it for one of a kind stuff ( and especially for an action figure sized piece too). do you reckon it would be cheaper in traditional Richard? i guess i am trying to work out the viability of digital vs handsculpt costings in my mind.
As you said before, the benefit of a digital is that size is irrelevant till you are exporting; no peering at a 14mm head through a visor!

atb --tim

 

[RKapuaala]

Tim,
If you are only interested in doing one scale, and really don't care what happens to the original as long as you have a good cast, then Clay or wax is much cheaper. I could buy a few ounces of miliput and a couple of pounds of sculpty or clay for that price. But I can't rescale that material unless I scan the original, and so far I haven't found a good inexpensive way to scan.
I sell a lot of small figures, anywhere between 3" up to 9" . It's hard for me with my failing vision to sculpt as well in those scales as I can in a 1:1 scale which is what I can do in 3D because my monitor is larger than a human head, which is the largest peice of the body requiring that much detail. It is also 2/3rds the size of the human thorax and about the same size as a human thigh. Meaning I can get in and get to those finiky details like subtle changes in the flesh where the tendons are underneath or where tiny muscles flex with certain movements. Even veins and fingernails are possible in very fine detail.
So to me, overall the 3D model is cheaper. Keep in mind, I also animate my figures so I can send them through a series of poses and just cleanup and detail where needed. I don't have to sculpt the whole character over again. That makes it fast, and lessens the boredom I get when I have to sculpt the same subject in a different pose.

 

[darkeye]

oh i hear ya; i tried looking at mini head i sculpted some years back and could barely see it like i once could. i am just interested in how good 3d is at present. i'd like to make use of it myself at some point. you are right that its an easier medium as it can ignore scale probs.
i wouldnt mind selling figures either but seems there are so many producers that there is no gap for me to make a small living so i guess its more for one of a kind stuff that 3d peaks my curiousity. that aside its a nice concepting tool to see what a figure might look like.

have you had a 9 inch one printed Richard and how good did you think it was?

atb --tim

 

[RKapuaala]

I've had a 1:6 bust printed, and I was not impressed. It seemed instead of printing more detail the print errors got larger. I was very irritated and sent them a long scathing email about it. The redid it, but the reprint was as bad as the first one. The irritating thing is that there were so many polygons in the the bust I had to divided it up in 2 pieces so the problem was not with my model but how they laid it up and how the setup the printing sequences.

 

[Ethan]

what micron quality are they printing your work at?

 

[RKapuaala]

Ethan, they are getting within a micron of their advertised detail level which is .1mm. But I'm just uing that increment loosley as I do not pocess the equipment to actuall measure in microns

 

[darkeye]

I've had a 1:6 bust printed, and I was not impressed. It seemed instead of printing more detail the print errors got larger. I was very irritated and sent them a long scathing email about it. The redid it, but the reprint was as bad as the first one. The irritating thing is that there were so many polygons in the the bust I had to divided it up in 2 pieces so the problem was not with my model but how they laid it up and how the setup the printing sequences.

ah thats no good then. any joy on quotes or prints from elsewhere Richard? maybe they would be better quality......

atb --tim

 

[RKapuaala]

I submitted files to various companies but got no responses. So far Shapeways is the most reliable. They have the beginings of a good customer support team and automated process that do initial checks on your models and respond when they recieve a model and when a model is accepted or rejected. I wish the rejection notices contained a little more info though. I submitted a model yesterday that got rejected,,, I think I know why, but it would be helpfull if they told me exactly why. Here is a pic of the steamer trunk that got rejected.

 

[Ethan]

My little brother is the 3d printing wizard in my life; we have a house/workshop together and he was the one to decide to go with home printing. We have had some Shapeways prints before and the main problem I can see is they don't care one bit about how they orientate the pieces on the printer. They cram as many proofs as they can on their printer and however it fits they print. Sadly this means that most of the time you won't get the .1mm or 100microns... For you RK, I would look into some other printing services for items you want to sell. Most of the more expensive services will make sure to place the item properly on the printer, talk about how the piece needs to be cut for casting etc. In the long run it is worth selling castings for a bit more and having fabulous castings/proofs vs. dealing with what you are dealing with now with print quality and risking sales to get the print fast and inexpensive. Anyways, that's my 2 cents! I love that you are really trying to dial in on the best quality for price. I hope you can find the right combination!

 

[Ethan]

The face is really nice on this 3d model! I see what looks like some kind of gap around the crotch area. That may have something to do with the rejection. Also are you planning on kitting this? If so it would be a good idea to use the 3d program to cut the pieces into kit form for casting, add a sprue or two so multiple pieces become one piece, and print that way so all you have to do is clean up small pieces instead of having to find ways to clean under arms and detail areas and try to cut a complete model with a jewelers saw or something. I haven't gotten to that point yet but I am sure it is going to be a learning process to get clean separations and uniform connecting points. You probably know this already though lol! I'm the nube Haha!

 

[RKapuaala]

Ethan,
The figure wasn't part of it, only the trunk. The shreading in the crotch is from the DAZ3d posing a default mesh I sculpted. If I was going to print the figure he would be cleaned up first and more detail would be added. Only the trunk got rejected.
You are right about orientation. I have had that discussion with them many times and I always get,,, we are thinking of offering better orientation for a higher price. To which my response is always,,, I will pay it. But so far they haven't come through.
As far as other printers. I've given up. Not because of the price, but for the lack of responsiveness. That is why I am saving up for my own printer.

 

[Ethan]

That's a good plan RK, The one we have coming in will print a 1.5x2" x 8" high space at 25microns or 0.025mm. I am greatly looking forward so seeing how it performs! A lot of this printers also have so many abilities to get larger working areas and better quality. A little tinkering and a lot of research! Good luck with your saving!

I'm surprised the trunk didn't get in... I don't see the printing difficulty. eh. So my printer just this second arrived in the mail! Looks like there will be some interesting pics coming next week!

 

[RKapuaala]

Ethan,
How many extruder heads does your printer have and how much did it cost, and what model is it, and where did you pick it up?
I had my suspicions about the model being successfully because of the tiny gap I created on the hing in the lock. I was attempting one more little detail to add to the realism by making the pin clearly visible and a small void inbetween the pin and the hinge. I'm sure that's where I got dinged.

 

[Ethan]

Ahh ya that might do it. You could make a solid strip behind the hinge with a bevel to give it the illusion of being hollow.

Our printer doesn't use extruder heads. Instead it has a vat of liquid UV-light-reactive resin and projects an image slice into the vat, hardens it, moves it up .025 and repeats. It's called the B9 Creator and was a Kick-starter project. It cost a bit over 2000.00USD at that time. I'm sure it will be more as an actual company.... Not sure how much. Supposedly some of the extruder types can be reformatted to print at .020 however! They would have a larger working surface so 1/6 full figures could be possible at that level of detail. That's from little brother though so I couldn't explain how that is possible lol. I would look into that process as we will once we get this printer paid for from profits.