The future figure-makers?

[Uruk-Hai]

Hello Figureteers!

This is a theory I have about how figures are going to be manufactured in the future, maybe after-market stuff as well.

I work for an international company specialising in hearing aids devices. One type of devices are called ITE (in the ear) and the devices is in a shell which is custom made for the user from molds of his/her ear. The procedure has been to take an impression of silicone off the ear and use that to make a negative mold an pour plastic into the mold to form that shell.

What is new is that were starting to scan the impression making a 3D picture of them and sending the "mold" by email to the factory. In the factory a lasercutter/lathe cuts out the shell perfectly with the 3D image as a guide.
Next is that we will just have a light beam to insert into the ear instead of using silicone and scanning the impression but thats at least two years ahead.

So what does that mean to us and can we benifit from it? Well if I let my imagination run a little free I can see this in front of me.

A site where you can customize your own figures.

A site where one can log in. Then sort of similar to how you create your character in a role-playing computer game you create the figure you want.
Lets say you start with choosing age, sex and bodytype. For example: 38, male, tall and slim or 27, female, short and plump? Depending on the person that you want as a figure or to fit in to the scene youre creating.
Next you choose the pose, facial expression, hands etc.
Continue to chose clothes and equipment etc.
There could be so much more to add. Perhaps the computer would automatically recomend break up off parts to simplify production.
When finally done you place the order and confirm it with price and delivery . A week later a package shows up on your doorstep and its time to start to build and paint.

As a drawback I admit that it takes away some of the art off it, on the other hand it would be so easy to compose scenes and get exactly the figures you want.

What do you think or have I just had me a beer to much?

 

[Lou Masses]

Too much beer :lol: Just kidding.

There already are programs and machines that can be fed a 3D file and literally sculpt the figure from it. Also ones that scan the body of a model and simply reproduce it. I think however that they are extrememly expensive.

They are great ideas, really great but as with anything else the economies of scale come in. What manufacturer (save maybe for Andrea) could invest in such a machine? Would they able to sell enough to justify the investment?
Neat thought though.

 

[poetwarrior]

Interesting thought indeed.

In addition to the cost of the machines that Lou mentioned are the inherent limitations of these machines to reproduce the level of sculptural detail that only human hands can achieve. Sure, there are machines that can generate a reduced likeness from scanned images of a human model, but only if the model is either nude or adorned in simple clothing. When it comes to scanning images from a human model adorned in, say, the complete marching order of a Scottish Highlander there could be a problem with all the undercuts and detail, not to mention the temperment of the Highlander! :lol:

That's my two cents! For what it's worth.

Dave Neary

 

[thegoodsgt]

Interesting thought, which could be reality in 5-10 years. Today the expense would be prohibitive, but who knows where technology will lead us. I could see such a service and product line taking some of the "art" out of the hobby (which reminds me of attempts to create movies where the viewer chooses the ending), but I would hope that a few real artists would stick around to appease us old-timers!

But, as long as the scanning and modeling devices could capture the subtle nuances of a distinctively Greek face, I'd be happy!

 

[Johan]

Originally posted by Uruk-Hai@Feb 7 2005, 12:39 PM
As a drawback I admit that it takes away some of the art off it

... Indeed, my friend ... And I guess it would indeed be expensive too. For that money, you might commission a sculptor to sculpt that figure you've always dreamt of, and then you'd have some cash left to pay a mould maker and a caster to produce a small quantity of it in resin or white metal ... and so, finally, you would be able to sell a couple in order to get back some of the money you invested ... :lol:

It is a wild scheme that I thought of many times ... when I'd just had a couple of beers !

Johan

 

[fsdesimone]

The 3D scan is good for toys and the like where you want the figure to actually look like who it's supposed to be portraying... like a Wolverine figurine that looks like Hugh Jackman or something along those lines. But it's very expensive and still requires a lot of cleanup from artists anyway because it can't handle things like hair properly (as well as the other limitations that Dave mentioned with regards to uniform). I'm sure it'll improve over time though and become cheaper. One company that I know does this is Gentle Giant: http://www.toymania.com/features/ggint.shtml

Francesca

 

[Pete_H]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a manufacturer from Texas (who I never heard of nor I remember at this time) already released a 120mm figure of a US Army Special Forces helicopter pilot using this procedure. The figure was a standard "standing straight up" pose with all his flight gear on him, including night vision goggles on the helmet.

 

[gordy]

When we all have the desktop 3D xyz axis modeler we could just download our newest figure!

 

[poetwarrior]

Pete,

I think I saw that figure and it was a straight up & down pose of a helicopter pilot with just a flight helmet. The pose was very stiff with very little descriptive detail to the flight suit and gear, folds in the drapery of the flight suit were very minimal as well. It looked a lot like the old Marx 6" soft plastic figs, but with less detail. Advancements in technology may improve, but the hands of a talented sculptor will never be improved upon. Although, the difference may be in the reproduction of some individual accoutrements.

Regards,

Dave

 

[minimaker]

Hi,

CAD in combination with 3D reproduction is already in use for small scale miniatures. The person best known for this is John Bear of Hellion production. Here are some articles showing parts of the process:
- http://www.mil-net.net/articles/warlord1.cfm
- http://www.cavhq.com/cad_cav.html

As far as I know the technique is only used for "mechical sculpts" (combat robots, spaceships) right now if it comes to miniatures. 3DCAD is very suited for this purpose and makes it a lot easier to create symmetry, straight faces, etc. It can also be done for organic figures but I think the balance between advantages and disadvantages make that sculptingwise it's just a matter of sculptor's skill, preference and aptitude.
Some advantages of Real life sculpts are:
- you work at the scale the final project has to be, so you can see straight away what works and what doesn't.
- it's a 3d object you can touch. It's easier to imagine than something on the screen.
- more freedom. You can work at any detail level your hands can archieve without the computer chocking on data (yeah, yeah, there are work-arounds, I know) or you needing that special function your program just doesn't have. Like something that will help you do drapery.
- a lot cheaper. You just need some tools and putty. If it comes to references it doesn't matter if the sculpting is digital or real life. You need them in both. With digital sculpting you need 3D hard and software as well as something or a company that does the 3D printing.
Some advantages of digital sculpting are
- the undo button This makes it easier to experiment with a design. Different pose, different layout, etc. etc.
- good for mechanical things.
- you can work very precisely since you can work with coordinates instead of guesstimating from a ruller.
- copy/paste. Things can be reused much easier and models can be "converted" without fear of loosing an original (unless you forgot to safe).
- data is digital. So when you're done you can easily exchange models or parts of them with other modelers (see the Poser communities like www.renderosity.com). You can also quickly send the data to the 3D printing company without fear of loss or abuse by postal services. Handy if you're not in the same country as the client. Just post it to a 3d printing service in his area. One example of the use of 3D data is movie stuff. When you've designed a monster for the movie you can use the same files as a basis for plastic models for the fans, creating printed drawings, etc. , etc. The data can get much more reuse.

I think the main reason for the technique not to be widespread is the cost for the sculptor and the cost of printing. As well as finishing since 3D printing is still often layered with can mean you need some surface finishing before the sculpt is ready for use. Of course, this is something that's worked on, so I doubt it will be a problem in the future.

Some comments on remarks:
"As a drawback I admit that it takes away some of the art off it"
IMHO Only in the same respect that converting takes away the art of sculpting originals. Sculpting an original sculp digitally takes the same amount of skills as real life sculpting. Sometimes even more. It's no wonder that in movies you often see than 3d model are not created directly in the computer but scanned from a real life sculpt.
The process that is described in the original mail is basically converting and combining existing 3d parts. Same as reposing miniatures and taking parts fromyour bits box. If you want to try this, there is 3D studio (http://www.daz3d.com/) with which you can do this. You can use the free model available there as well as parts and models from the whole of the internet poser community. Technically it is possible but will take some investment. Question is also if the costs will be low enough for the hobby figure lover to afford it.

"but the hands of a talented sculptor will never be improved upon"
Correct. But stiffness of a model is not a result of the tool used. It's the limitation of the modeler and/or the company. A digital sculptor can create a very detailed and lifelike model (think of all the creatures in the LOTR movies) but he will need time and talent. And time to develop that talent. And since time costs money....
Anyway, here are some examples of printed 3d models in a larger size:
http://www.3darttopart.com/gallery3.php The dinosaurs and monster models show that stiffness is not a set result of digital sculpting. By the way, their material finish seems less fine as the wax printing used for the CAV models. There is still a bit of variation in this.
Note, any 3d digital model you see in movies, in games and on internet can be 3d printed. If you're willing to pay the money that is.

Right, all I can think of right now. Hope you find the info of use.

By the way, I sculpt 28mm figures in Epoxy but also know 3D CAD and experiment in some 3D sculpting.

 

[quang]

Originally posted by minimaker@Feb 8 2005, 06:04 AM
"As a drawback I admit that it takes away some of the art off it"

All Things Must Pass.



Q.

 

[Figure Mad]

A company in England called SDRC were developing software and machinery for this specific purpose nearly twelve years ago, having a lot of cooperation with Sun Systems, interestingly enough the CGI cartooning was developed from the progression of this kind of software, they developed a method of using it in the opposit direction (so to speak).

One prospect that would be very interesting to the figure modeller would be, the fact that once the scanned parts digitally generated, the figures can be produced in any scale.....


Kind of opens a new world to the 90mm figure painter, could you imagine this scale having the same range of figures as the 54mm scale


Dave

 

[minimaker]

> Kind of opens a new world to the 90mm figure painter, could you imagine this scale having the same range of figures as the 54mm scale

I don't think it would be that straightforward. When you sculpt a figure in a particular scale you will sometimes choose to exagerate something to make it look good. Consider depths in facial features and other details as well as thicknesses of clothing and belts. If you do a straight scale down you may end up with parts that look to thin to the eye (and to cast), can not be painted or recognised by lack of raised surface, etc. What is possible though is to take the data, schrink down the model and then have a sculptor (digital or real life) rework it for that scale.

 

[Figure Mad]

Hi Ming-Hua

A very good point and I do agree, some adjustments would have to be made, but it will become a possibility, depending on how sophisticated the hard and software is, or becomes, things are developing every day.

Dave

 

[PJ Deluhery]

Janne -

Fascinating topic! I think this technology is likely to appear - and much quicker than some above have speculated.

You Monster Garage show fans in the states will recall that Jesse James uses a machine similar to the one described by Janne to make one-off mag wheels for his cars. I forget whether he actually owns it or not; but the point is, if a Jamoke like James can get his hands on one, how long will it be before the likes of Andrea, Historex, etc. will figure out that crazies like us will pay 2X or 3X retail price to be able to go online and custom-build our own figures. Like Grandpa sez: "Always follow the money!"

Undoubltedly there will be limits as to what the machine can do, so you sculptors don't need to dump your tools and epoxy putty just yet. We have photographs and lithographs of famous paintings, but the original is still prized more than the knock offs. Human effort will always win out over machines. Besides what machine has IMAGINATION? (I know, that's comming too!) ;-)

Personally I'm gonna use it to SCALE UP those 54's I can't see anymore.

 

[minimaker]

Hi,

here is the blog of a sculptor doing digital sculpting with the intent to have them printed: http://3d-miniature.blogspot.com/

Bye, Ming-Hua