The Verlinden judging system?

[Uruk-Hai]

Hidiliho Figureteers!

Some years ago Verlinden wrote in his magazine about a new system for judging that he had come up with or introduced by him.

According to himself it was a very good and even revolutionary system but I have no idea how it worked and if it was liked among modellers.

Perhaps some in our community can elaborate this for me?

Cheers

 

[Jim Patrick]

Janne, I have no idea what the "Verlinden Judging System" is. I know he did a book awhile back where he talked about his much debated "System". There is a judging system in place at Mastercon, a VLS sponsored and ran event. Bob and Susan Letterman run the show as you know VLS and Verlinden split some time ago. If this is the system Francios is refering to, it's basically this:

Every contestant who registers votes for his/her favorite 3 entries in a given category. All the votes are totaled up and the awards are distributed accordingly. There are a lot of questions you have already. I can see them all the way to Stockholm! :lol: Yes, you will have some people vote for your entry just because they like you. Some, not all. You are also likely to have (this is applies to me!) some who will not vote for you because they don't like you. It all balances out in the end.

Hope this helps,
Jim Patrick

 

[AJLaFleche]

A popularity contest where the guy who arrives early has the best chance of winning and the guy who gets in late the least, even if ballots are apssed out at the close of registration. :angry:

 

[nagashino]

Hello all

This "system" was tried out at a recent model show I attended, and although I didn't enter anything, from speaking to the contestants, the results were far from satisfactory. Much partisan voting and very little bearing on the quality of the entries.

I would personally rather have my entries evaluated by people who A) - know what they are looking at and B) - have a recognised and respected "track record" in the hobby. The "open" system operated in the US and Europe (less so in the UK I regret to say) - with a panel of judges, is the tried and tested method most preferred by pretty well all of the modellers I know.

My two-penneth

Cheers

Phil

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Thanks all for chipping in.

Its actually exactly what Ive suspected and I have noticed the same thins as you.

Carbuilders for example doesnt care much for AFVs and vice versa.

People vote for friends.

People doesnt vote for other contestants as the might be a rival.

Somtimes its more important what one has tried to do than what is really acomplished.

Cheers

 

[iceman]

Ah, the old judging chestnut I see!

IMHO, most contests here in the UK are a debacle, invariably the judges have no comprehension of the subject matter, quite often someone will be dragged in last minute as they can't find anyone to judge that category. You have to have people who are respected and able to build and paint to a high degree in the category that they are judging.

I was at Hornchurch recently and in the car section (my other modelling interest) the 1st place went to a hunk of rubbish (IMHO), but it was large 1/8th scale, so had impact. the build was clean but lacking in detail. IMHO the paintwork was well executed, but the fleck in the paint was far too large so looked out of scale and odd. My point is, is that if you don't build the subject how can you appreciate the subtleties. To rub salt in the wounds it went on to win best civilian vehicle in show!!

Another beef that I have is that invariably other than aircraft and AFV's there is normally only one category - all scales, again at Hornchurch for the cars this was the case, and the skills are very different for each scale, how on earth can you judge between a large piece like the 1/8th Camaro and a 1/24th Porsche. The same thing happened with the figures - two categories, mounted or unmounted, again how can a 30mm or 54mm figure be compared to a bust? Far enough if there are limited entrants in any given category, you then could amalagamate them or scrap it all together.

IMHO all competition entries should be judged on their own merits, much as they did for the Old Model Engineering Exhibition and do somewhat for the IPMS Nationals here in the UK.

I totally agree with you all that quite often judging is partisan and actually bears no resemblance on the entry or abilities of the modeller..

Although I did get a placing (3rd) with one of my entries in the car category, I think that there were better models on the table.

One thing that was apparent is the fact that at the last Hornchurch show that I went to some 3 years ago, you couldn't move for entries, this year there were hardly any, I think that modellers are voting with their feet and just not submitting models into competition, primarily because they are continually let down by the judging I suspect.

Naturally only my opinions, but would be interested in hearing other people's views on them.

Thanks

Tim

 

[renarts]

No matter what the subject, rules, criteria,e tc. Once you add the human element, there is no such thing as subjective judging. Its why it is called judging and not checklisting. There will always be bias, favorite, resentment, educational ignorance (i.e. "I didn't know they had those kind of buttons..."), presumption, etc.

Nature of the beast. Part of competition, contests, whatever you want to call them. You'll have a much better time if you just accept it, and enjoy your figure building/painting/sculpting/conversion....creative time. Let the judges and organizers lose sleep over "Judging Criteria" you can only paint/sculpt as good as you can. There are no engine mods, fuel mixtures, performance enhancing drugs, training regimines that you can add on. Just you and your abilities.

 

[Wlas]

IMHO all competitions that fail to vote me Best of Show, The New Durer, The Best Thing Since White Bread and Crowd Favorite ( whether I'm there or not-whether I display or not ) are faulty or simply rigged.
But that's just my humble opinion.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

In my role as a modeller Im also often serving as a judge and organizer.

As the judging allways will be debated and theres no such thing as true justice in this hobby we can only strive to do our best. Its also my firm belief that historical accuracy should not be taken into the criterias but merely on basic level, like no King Tigers at Gettysburg. Only the skill of the craft should be judged.

That involves having certain rules, criterias and judges that are experienced in their field as well as open to different styles. Often I hear that this is only a hobby and it certainly is for some but more important for others.

I like to joke and say that to some modelling is a matter of life and death but actually its much more important than that.

Also I feel sometimes that organizers of a show doesnt step up to their responsibilities when the let visitors or contestants judge. No one to blame in the large crowd. This could be ok for smaller happenings but larger event when theres money involved for the organizing club should have proper judges.

Cheers

 

[renarts]

I was going to name my firstborn Majnun but the wife doesn't buy that.
I do understand there is a cargo cult in Atlanta and Chicago that worships you, sacraficing figures in your name, building bamboo effigys of workbenches and optivisors..... :lol:

 

[Jim Patrick]

Hmmmm, well, didn't expect it to turn like this. That's OK though. We are all entitled to our opinion and I certianly don't want to be perceived as not respecting someone else's. I for one (although there are more here, they just choose to remain silent) like the judging system at Mastercon. It has it's faults just like at any show (when was the last time we left an exibition and heard no one upset?) but it also has many more upsides. That's OK too. I'm not posting back in this thread to say "My system is better than your system and if you don't like it, I'll take my models and go home". Instead it was to say that as time has gone on, I have come to care less and less about the judging. I enjoy the fellowship MUCH more than I do anything else at a show. Awards are nice, don't get me wrong but awards will not bring me back to a show. Camraderie will EVERY time. Show organizers spend far too much time on the small details. They need to spend more time on the bigger items. These are, after all, what we (the attendees) see more often than not. When was the last time you attended a show where the hospitality took a back seat? We here in the figure hobby don't see this. Step outside our "side" of the hobby and look for it. You'd be hard pressed to find it. It does happen and it is happening much more often now, however, can you imagine going to a figure exibition and not having some form of a hospitality suite going on? I guess what I'm trying to say is the judging and awards, while they are important, theyr'e just not as important as the friendships that are made and sometimes outlast our time in this hobby. Atlanta was a perfect, recent example for me. A lot of names on the screen here at pF now have a face. People I have never met in my life all introduced themselves (as did I). Somewhere in there, I'll bet a bond was made that will last longer than that pair of jeans I can't seem to part with :lol: . Now I ask you. Which is more important? The gold I was awarded at Atlanta or the friends that were made?

Stepping down,
Jim Patrick

 

[Wlas]

Actually, Mike, it's the cult of the MFCA that worships me and sacrifices figures in my honor. Oddly enough they always seem to be the figures I bring that get sacrificed. The closest thing to the bamboo effigies I've recently received was notice that a cult of admirers in one of the small isles off Britain was building a wickerman in my likeness and were willing to pay my travel costs if I can attend the celebration near the end of October......

 

[quang]

:lol:

Anyone who remembers 'The Wicker Man' (and the Britt Eckland's dance scene ) cannot go wrong.

Q.

 

[PJ Deluhery]

Jim, I agree with yo completely. In fact, I have a small can of "judge repellant" I received from a soothsayer woman I know. I spray all my figures with it as soon as they are finished. This guarantees that when I put my figures in competition they will be universally ignored by the judges, which in turn, frees me up to have a good time socializing without thinking about how I did in the awards! :lol:

 

[thegoodsgt]

I'm with Jim here. I don't necessary think that the Mastercon system is the best way to run a contest, but it is an interesting alternative to the other, more traditional systems.

Mastercon sounds like the American Idol of scale modeling. The best singer doesn't necessarily win, just the one who's the most popular. It's not always "fair" the best singer in the competition, but sometimes you'd rather listen to Brian Adams (terrible singer on a technical level) than Bing Crosby (technically near perfect). In modeling terms, I'd rather look at a "stunning" model than one that is technically flawless but lifeless.

 

[Anders Heintz]

I would say that is not quite as personal as one would think. The very first time I showed up at Mastercon nobody there knew me, well, maybe Jim but that was about it. I walked away with 3 gold medals and a couple of silvers, that pretty much blows the argument that it is all based on personal feelings towards the person as nobody knew me. Although if they had known me, maybe they would not have voted for my entries :lol:

But it was about the same the next year I went, so dont think the buddy factor is playing such a big role as everyone seam to think.

Even though everyone is not an 'expert' in all areas, we are all crative people who can point out excellent workmanship in anything we see, be it a plane, wood work, a tank or a sci fi piece.

I like the system, and it works well at MasterCon.

However, I dont think it let's you know where you are regarding to your painting/sculpting skill as much as the Open system though. Atleast thats what I do when I win an award, have I improved or have I taken a step back? Where do I need to improve etc etc... to me the judging is an excellent tool to see where you 'are' at that point in time.

 

[thegoodsgt]

Anders, I think you're right. I've attended many IPMS contests and most or all have a "most popular" vote, which mirrors the theme of Mastercon. I've never seen people vote for their friends. They always vote for what they sincerely believe to be the most stunning/memorable/best model, which is as it should be.

I have good friends who attend these shows with me, and I'll be damned if I'm going to "throw away" my vote on their crap! (Present company excepted!)

 

[AJLaFleche]

Originally posted by thegoodsgt@Mar 28 2006, 08:04 PM
I've attended many IPMS contests and most or all have a "most popular" vote, which mirrors the theme of Mastercon. I've never seen people vote for their friends. They always vote for what they sincerely believe to be the most stunning/memorable/best model, which is as it should be.

The last time we had a "People's choice" we had a bunch of ballots in identical handwriting for a far less than superior model. That was 10 or 11 years ago.
At Long Island last November, an organizer commented that there were several ballots with remarkably similar penmanship cast for the winner.

 

[Brad S]

I have to agree with Anders on this. I have been to many IPMS events that nobody knew me from Joe Blow and still walked away with awards. I believe that most people are honest and do the best they can on judging and being as fair as possible. There will always be a few that mess with this, but overall I believe it works.

I do believe the Open system, if judged correctly, lets one know where they stand personally. And I prefer this system.

The traditional system can give a false sense of achievement and evaluation of talent. Ex. - the tenth best airplane may be better than the first place tank, so the guy that has the airplane may think that he isn't very good where the guy with the tank thinks that he is great.

Anyway - my 2 cents worth.

Brad Spelts

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Lets be careful not to mix in the awards with the judging system.

We can very well have an Open system with contester judging as well as a traditional with selected judges.

Cheers