Toxic Modelling Putty

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Bruno

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
213
Hi folks,

I'm looking for an alternative to the Magic Sculp Product.

Like other persons, I got a heavy alergic reaction after using Magic Sculp since years. The reaction was in the face, eyes and mouth. Not from a contact with Magic Sculp, but from the odor. According to the doctor, Magic Sculp seemd to produce toxic odor when mixed together and hardened. The most people seemd to have not problem, other had problem with it.

If some one could give me the name and source of other products, I would be very greatful.

Thank you very much.

Bruno
 
You might try Aves Apoxie-Sculpt. It has similar properties to Magic-Sculpt. I comes in various colors too. The natural is a close match to MS. I have white and like it well enough. Aves has less body and a little more tackiness when first mixed.

Aves Homepage
 
Epoxy vapours (from putty, resin, glue, etc.) are the most toxic. Aves is certified as a non-toxic product, but that does not mean you will not have an allergic reaction. Toxicity does not means tout court allergy, you can develop allergy also with non-toxic products.
 
Originally posted by John Long@Apr 10 2006, 10:37 AM
You might try Aves Apoxie-Sculpt. It has similar properties to Magic-Sculpt.

Aves Homepage
My understanding is that Aves putty has two of the same chemicals in the hardener that are found in Magicsculpt and A&B and it's bill as non-toxic may nean when it is only fully cured.~Gary
 
Bruno - Sorry to hear about your allergy problems. Stay away from MS or any of the other 2-part putties - Duro, A+B, Apoxie Sculpt. They all use variations of the same chemical hardeners. All the ones I know about can provoke the allergy. As your doctor probably told you, once you have had a serious allergic response, you should stop using them for good. If you don't, even with a respirator and gloves, your allergic response can still be triggered and it probably will only get worse.

I've started using a sculpting wax called Sculpey. It uses an entirely different chemistry and sets up hard with heat. Basically you bake it in your over at 275F for 15 minutes and it hardens. Frankly, I don't like it as much as MS, but it has its uses. If you take a look at my vBench, I've just made a cobblestone street with it and I'm trying to make a building wall. Some sculptors have done some amazing things with it!

Do you know about The Compleat Sculptor? Take a look at their site and you'll probably get some other ideas for the many other materials you can try. You definitely don't have to quit sculpting, just adjust and overcome!

I've just e-mailed Gordy a short one pager on the Safety and Health Precautions of 2-Part Putties. I think he'll be posting it in the Articles. The chemistry, the Material Safety Data Sheet information, and other stuff can be confusing. So, I've tried to distill 4 MSDSs of the commonly used 2-part putties and make the information more useful and simple to follow. If at any time any pF member has questions about health and safety problems with putties, paints, or whatever or you want to use a respirator or gloves but don't know which to buy, please feel free to e-mail me and I'll try to help. I have no ties to safety equipment makers, chemical makers, putty or paint manufacturers, so I'm relatively unbiased. I've been in the Safety and Health business for a bit and ABIH board certified as an industrial hygienist (air contaminants, noise, protective equipment, etc.) since 1991. If I can't help you, I'll find someone who can.

A hobby shouldn't cause health problems!

All the best,
Dan Morton, CIH
 
Thanks for the information Dan. I've been concerned for some time with the safety issues around the materials we all use. My own reaction to 2part putties started when I used the products on a daily basis while sculpting wargames figures around 18 years ago and I still can't use them. In my case the reaction is swollen, cracked and bleeding eyelids diagnosed as a severe localised form of dermatitis. It's also correct to say that the use of masks, respirators doesn't help.
I also suffer slight reactions with 2 part epoxy resin glues but only if used too frequently.
I've now taken the fairly extreme measure of avoiding resin figures partly because I'm unsure of the dangers inherent in resin dust but also, as a generalisation, they seem to more frequently require the use of fillers. I would welcome an informed independent view of the safety of the various resins in use.
With metal figures I rely on the glue to also act as filler. I am temped to try soldering metal figures together but a recent ad in a hobby magazine, railway modeller(UK), is encouraging customers to "stock up on those soon to be illegal substances". I assume that is based upon the lead/cadmium content of particular solders.

I realise that the issues raised could become fairly contentious as some manufacturers could imply that their products are under direct threat but it is extremely important that these issues are discussed.

Regards


Geoff

UK
 
Jeff - Yes, I did. I got copies of the Material Safety Data Sheets for Duro or Kneadatite, Milliput, A+B, Magicsculp, & Apoxie sculpt. They all use variations of the same chemistry to cause a catalytic reaction and harden the putty. All of them can cause skin reactions, dermatitis and, in some persons, respiratory allergic reactions, although those are less common than the skin reactions. Probably most if not all 2-part putties use this chemistry.

If you use gloves when you handle them, good ventilation in your work area, and a respirator when you sand or drill the hardened putty, most people can use them safely. Also clean up your work area. Don't leave dust everywhere.

The problem being reported in this and other recent posts is a sensitization allergy that becomes progressively worse with more exposure. In most people, it can be prevented if you use the precautions. But if you are already sensitized, I would stop using the 2-part putties and find other materials to use for sculpting. The Compleat Sculptor has a large number of materials to choose from. There are probably other web pages that list other sculpting material vendors, but that's the one I know about.

Geoff - Sorry to hear about your reaction. Given the way the putties work, you must have rubbed your eyes inadvertently. Easy to do - I've done it myself! I got a much milder reaction than you did. Yes, you've hit on an important point. Dose or how often are you exposed, for how long and to how much. Not to be boring, but there is a general principle in toxicology that says that everything is potentially hazardous, it is the amount being put in the body that matters. If you limit your exposures, use the precautions above and pay particular attention to keeping the stuff out of your eyes, you may be able to continue to use them with only mild reactions. But look for that reaction to get worse as you get older.

Don't know much about the make-up of lead/tin soldiers. I should think they are mostly tin. There may be small amounts of lead, cadmium, chromium, maybe some nickel. [I'm just shooting from the hip here - I don't have any references.] Avoid breathing metal dusts. Clean up very thoroughly with water and dishwashing liquid the work area where dust is produced. Keep children absolutely out of these work areas! It takes an amazingly small amount of lead to cause serious nervous system problems in developing children.

Sorry for the length of this, folks!

All the best,
Dan
 
that everything is potentially hazardous, it is the amount being put in the body that matters

Does that include beer? :(

Seriously, I wonder just how many modellers out there are blissfully unware of the potential hazards from the stuff we regularly use. I belong to several clubs, mostly plastic bashers, and I know many modellers who regularly use resins and toluene-based fillers, not to mention isopropyl alcohol, cellulose thinners , acid cleaners, aerosol lacquers etc etc - the list goes on. I don't have any information on how many take precautions to protect themselves and their loved ones from exposure but I suspect it's less than 50%.

I guess I am lucky in that I have not observed any reaction from using epoxy products. I do use latex gloves, and I wear a dust mask when sanding resin and metal, and working in a dedicated workspace out of the house helps there too. I guess the rigours of old age are camouflaging any underlying problems.

Maybe time someone took up the challenge and wrote a manual on the lines of the UK COSHH regulations, specifically aimed at our hobby.

I need some air!

Phil
 
Bruno, sorry to hear about your problems. It doesn't look like it's going to be easy to locate a viable replacement :(

Originally posted by polyphemus+Apr 11 2006, 08:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (polyphemus @ Apr 11 2006, 08:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I've now taken the fairly extreme measure of avoiding resin figures partly because I'm unsure of the dangers inherent in resin dust...[/b]

Resin dusts are supposed to be fairly inert, the major risk with resins lies with the VOCs given off from the liquid components. Still, I'd take care to avoid breathing in dust of any kind if I could and with a pre-existing condition like yours I would be ultra cautious!

Originally posted by polyphemus@Apr 11 2006, 08:10 AM
I realise that the issues raised could become fairly contentious as some manufacturers could imply that their products are under direct threat but it is extremely important that these issues are discussed.
Absolutely, no point in burying one's head in the sand. The community should promote safety with these materials in exactly the same way we would about spraying lacquers and using MEK or something like that.


Thanks as always for the additional info Dan.

Originally posted by Dan Morton@Apr 11 2006, 12:10 PM
Probably most if not all 2-part putties use this chemistry.
I'm friendly with an industrial chemist who specialised in two-part compounds and he suggested much the same thing.

Originally posted by Dan Morton@Apr 11 2006, 12:10 PM
If you use gloves when you handle them, good ventilation in your work area, and a respirator when you sand or drill the hardened putty, most people can use them safely.
I clean my hands thoroughly immediately after mixing and I'm hoping that's good enough for me. I limit the amount of sanding, grinding and drilling as much as I can anyway as I prefer to 'wet-sculpt', which I'm thankful for now.

Originally posted by Dan Morton@Apr 11 2006, 12:10 PM
Also clean up your work area. Don't leave dust everywhere.
This is one tip that's really obvious but I suspect often overlooked, it certainly was when I was younger.

Originally posted by Dan Morton@Apr 11 2006, 12:10 PM
Don't know much about the make-up of lead/tin soldiers. I should think they are mostly tin.
Since the alloys used for metal figures these days are all lead free as far as I know, because of the general crackdown on lead, we're better off than in the past but we still don't want to be inhaling tin and antimony dust routinely if we can avoid it... especially if you have silver-amalgam fillings.

<!--QuoteBegin-Dan Morton
@Apr 11 2006, 12:10 PM
Sorry for the length of this, folks! [/quote]
Don't be :)

Einion
 
Einion & Phil - Many thanks for the posts! I couldn't agree more - we need to get the word out to first, the pF members and then the model-making community at large. I gave Gordy a one page article to post on precautions to take with 2-part putties. When it gets loaded, I'd appreciate your comments and any suggestions for improvements. Maybe add something similar for enamel paints and thinners, metals, etc., etc. Unfortunately I've gotten a couple private e-mails from sculptors with allergies developing from 2-part putties, asking for help.

All the best,
Dan
 
Jeff - I hope so! The symptoms can be pretty unpleasant and they can be prevented in most people! But it takes a mature understanding of the possible problems. I'd like to challenge everybody who understands this to talk to your fellow sculptors, modellers, etc. and get the word out. Let's do what we can to prevent it.

All the best,
Dan
 
Bruno was threatened legal action from Magic Sculpt and asked me to remove this thread per phone call from Germany at 11:25am CT

Guy
 

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