Vallejo Acrylics Chipping and Rubbing Off

[Sgt Rock]

Hey, thanks for reading this. I have had a long layoff from figure painting, app. 7 years. Last I painted I was using oils, but switched to acrylics at the end of my last time painting about 7 years ago. I have recently found a little time to get back into painting, and I am finding my acrylic paints chipping and rubbing off very easily!

I am doing a 54mm figure (Iron Brigade from the Civil War), has a base coat of Gunze Sanyo primer, and painted with thin coats of Vallejo acrylic paints, and a lot of the colors are mixed to my own taste.

The problem, when I go to attach an already-painted haversack, canteen, cartridge box, etc, to the figure itself, it seems the acrylic paint chips off and rubs offs!! It does this whether I use my bare hands to attache the piece, a cloth, tissue, whatever. So, I spend a LOT of time re-touching, and it is driving me crazy. It will be a nightmare when I go to attach the competed figure to its base! I just know it.

Any advice and help will be greatly appreciated. Might it have to do with the Vallejo paints being so old, as I am using the same ones I purchased way back, seven years ago? And if that is the case, and I have to buy new paints, do you out there have any recommendations as to the best acrylics to buy. Thanks for all your time.

Frustrated in Pennsylvania!

 

[Jamie Stokes]

Dear Frustrated......

Is the base primer flaking off as well, or just the top coats of Vallejo?

If the base coat is flaking off too, I'm wondering either the there may be some mold release agents still causing the flaking?

If the base coat still sticks, then perhaps it's a reaction between the primer and the Vallejo?

Or perhaps, as you suspect, the Vallejo paints may have gone off.....Vallejo are still good paints (use them myself) - normally, I find Vallejo to be a good paint re; handling and so on. Sometimes, wen stripping a figure for rework, my problem goes the other way - it wont come off.

Maybe invest in a new bottle or tow, and do some off figure tests......

Hope this helps,

Cheers

 

[Sgt Rock]

Thanks for the response. It seems that the primer comes off as well..in certain cases, and other times, it is just the coats of Vallejo. I did rinse the figure off after sanding and prepping, and before I put the primer on. But, I did not WASH the figure, with soap and water.

 

[housecarl]

I take it that it's a white metal figure, I've had the same problem in the past. I know it doesn't answer your question, but you're not alone. I would suspect that it's not washing the figure prior to priming.
Carl.

 

[gordy]

Does acrylic primers have the proper 'bite' to a surface that a lacquer or oil based have? Depending on the target surface metal, resin and surface-finish matte or highly smooth adhesion would definitely be a factor..

I think there is more detail we need to know, like Carl mentioned is the figure white metal?

 

[Sgt Rock]

Yes, it is a white metal figure, I believe the figure is made by Pegaso. Same type of metal (to me, anyway) that most "metal" figures are made of, such as Andrea.

I primed the figure, and gave it a few days to dry before applying any of the acrylic coats. The Gunze Sanyo primer is the fine-grade primer, and came highly recommended by the owner of the Michigan Toy Soldier Company. And, he stated he has used the stuff and just loves it.

Any more details that might help, I will be more than happy to answer. Again, thanks for everyones time!

 

[Wendy]

Thanks for the response. It seems that the primer comes off as well..in certain cases, and other times, it is just the coats of Vallejo. I did rinse the figure off after sanding and prepping, and before I put the primer on. But, I did not WASH the figure, with soap and water.

Not washing the figure before priming might be the problem. It's best wash the figure to make sure there is no mould release agent or other traces left. Just save an old toothbrush use a bit of dishwashing soap. Now, sometimes painted surfaces with sharps edges and corners will rub off easier than usual because it gets the most contact, even with light handling (but this applies more to minis). If it continues to be a problem, you could spray the parts with a bit of Dullcote before gluing them to the fig...

 

[Sgt Rock]

Thanks for the response Wendy.

I guess that brings me to another point: Has anyone out there had success at spraying, say a Testor's Dullcote over Vallejo acrylics, without any ill side effects?

I have no problem doing that, as long as I retain the flat finish that I love from the Vallejo acrylics, and that the Dullcote does not do anything weird to the Vallejo paints, like whitening or hazing to the paint.

 

[Wendy]

I've never had any problems spraying Dullcote over Vallejo, both Model color and Game color. Just keep the coats light. Probably best when it's not really humid, but that season is done. I've even painted over Dullcote without problem...

 

[Jamie Stokes]

One other thing with preparing figures, metal ones at least.

I've found that by polishing the figures (by hand) with a soft wire brush helps strip any oxide build up off the metal, with out removing surface detail.

If you want to duplicate my experiment, you can use a dremel tool, with a steel wire brush. That will strip paint, oxidation, flesh, and once the scars have healed, you can re-sculpt the missing parts and or details!


Or, just hand use a brass wire brush......

Cheers

 

[macbrayne]

Acrylics chipping

It could also be that the surface the primer is applied to is too smooth which will not allow the primer anything to grip onto. If this is the case give the surface a quick rub with very fine wet & dry before priming

Stuart

 

[Einion]

The Gunze Sanyo primer is the fine-grade primer, and came highly recommended by the owner of the Michigan Toy Soldier Company. And, he stated he has used the stuff and just loves it.

The Gunze primer is good stuff, so I'd guess the problem is likely to be either grease on the metal surface and/or release agent and/or an oxide film and/or too much handling (even the toughest paint can be worn off if handled excessively, especially if it was applied to a very smooth primer coat).

When the Gunze is empty by the way there are a number of alternative primers in spraycans you can use which are just as good or better, while being a lot cheaper (auto primers and general metal primers like Duplicolor and Painter's Touch from RustOleum).

I guess that brings me to another point: Has anyone out there had success at spraying, say a Testor's Dullcote over Vallejo acrylics, without any ill side effects?

It's widely done. But I wouldn't recommend it as a normal part of your procedure if you can avoid it - it's an additional step and like with all varnishing there's some chance it can go wrong (chalky residue, frosting, dust/fluff adhering during drying). Ideally, rely on your paint's natural finish wherever possible, long as it's tough enough to deal with the small amount of handling necessary for assembly.

Are you having to handle the parts much or at all during painting?

Einion

 

[Sgt Rock]

Thanks to everyone who has responded, and I have read all entries with great interest.

Einion, there is minimal handling of the figure. In fact, the only time I touched it was when my hand brushed up against the already-completed shoes, so that I could paint some buttons on the jacket, and the paint rubbed off the shoes...came off way too easy. And the second time I touched the figure was to glue the figure to its finished base. I grabbed the figure from above at the figures shoulders, with a tissue buffering my hand from the paint on the figure...and some pain rubbed off on EACH shoulder of the figure.

I may try one of the primers you mentioned, especially if it works and is cheaper.

Again, appreciate everyone taking the time with their advice and to respond. That is what makes this site so good!

 

[chippy]

I've recently started painting with acrylics after years painting with oils , at first I just used the ones I had for base coats before applying the oils , some Games Work Shop and some Andrea , but then I bought a few Vallejo and like you I find these rub off very easily when handling the figure .

chippy

 

[jknaus]

I have had some problems with my current figure. I sprayed Tamiya primer on and then painted with Vallejo. And there are a few spots now where the Vallejo chipped off and the primer can be seen. Maybe the Vallejo wasn't mixed enough?
James

 

[Jamie Stokes]

Well,
I've used Vallejo quite happily for some time now, and haven't really come across the situations described, really.

I clean my figures with warm soapy water, let dry, and then prime with Vallejo primer.

So far, I have had one figure show some signs of wear and tear, and that is because of handling the figure, while painting.

I do keep in mind that acrylics dry quickly (touch dry) it may take a while for the paint to fully 'set'

regards,

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

I had a look at a figure I painted about seven years ago with acrylics and there is some
chipping and rub off, I am much more at ease with oils and i think I will stay that way.
Didn't mention the manufacturer for obvious reasons.

 

[PaultheMilitaryModeller]

Hi

I read somewhere that this happens because Vallejo Model Color and Model Air Paints are latex based so not to strong when dry, this is not an issue with their Model game range as by its very nature game subjects are supposed to be handled so their Game paint is much stronger and harder when dry. dont know why they dont make all their paints the game color way though, if the above is correct that is.

Paul

 

[kagemusha]

Had this problem only once and resolved it by using pre-boiled water as the water in my area is very hard. Being a technical consultant in the print industry I have had to remedy similar problems with inks/paper, and it usually comes down to Ph levels and surface suitability when chalking and rubbing off are involved. Water as a factor would indicate why some have no problems with the same set up of paints and primers, yet a few have a bitch of a time.

Regards

Ron

 

[Joe55]

You are definately not alone in this predicament! I too had the same issue recently and I thoroughly scrubbed my figure prior to priming with Mr. Surfacer 1000. Likewise, my collection of Vallejo paints is pretty old. The hardness of the water could very well be a culprit as Ron pointed out, its the same here where I live. I recall some painters use distilled water and I'm going to try this. Of course any handling poses a potential risk to paint wearing off, especially on high points, so we can expect this to some degree. I reckon I'll try the other primers mentioned too. Good luck to you.

Joe