Wanted: Winchester Yellow Boy

[Johan]

Hello people,

I'm desperately looking for a Winchester mod. 1866 repeater in 120mm scale. It's the one with the brass fittings which was nicknamed "Yellow Boy" and was much used in the old West.

Does anyone know where I could find one? A 120mm figure kit that has this rifle, or is it produced as an accessory by someone?

Thanks,

Johan

 

[Dani A.]

Hi,

Look here:

http://www.newordermodeldesigns.com/index.html

They have some Western sets, and I believe some model of Winchester is included - maybe no exactly the 1866, but surely it can provide you with a basis for conversion.

HTH,

Dani

 

[Guy]

Thats just the company I was going to suggest too. The Red LAncer carries their line of accessories too

 

[quang]

Great link, Dani.

Are they metal or resin?

Quang

 

[Johan]

Muchos gracias, Dani. They have some good Indian wars sets I see, and one of them has what looks like a Winchester!

Guy, it would be great to know for sure if the Red Lancers in the USA carry this range. New Order is situated in Canada I noticed (Montreal), and I've always found it's a pain in the neck to order anything from that country - Canadian customs are worse even than Belgian are nowadays!

Now Quang, wouldn't that Winchester look just great in the hands of your Cowboy :lol:
Seriously, my friends, it was Quang who kindly pointed out to me what kind of firearms would be accurate for conversions of some of his figures, but I'll let him speak here about that subject if he wants - I found it interesting that at the Battle of Little Bighorn the native americans may not have used that much Winchesters (vs the slow-loading Trapdoor Springfield carbines of the US cavalry) but most probably bows and arrows instead. Very interesting, I wasn't aware of that until Quang pointed that out to me.

Thank you guys for your kind reactions and help,

Johan

 

[Dani A.]

Hi,

I have some of the New Order weapon sets, although none of the Western sets; they are resin, and very high quality.

On the matter of LBH, a couple of things:

It has been just released a book in the Osprey MAA series, Warriors at the Little Big Horn: an excellent work by Richard Hook, both text and drawings. Its format is similar to those of generals or personalities, but here individual warriors are described, some well known, the greater part "rank-and-file" ( so their appearance is usually typical of the average warrior) based exclusively in native testimonies and/or pictographs. Very highly recommended. As a matter of fact, I was looking forward to this book as a source on which to base conversions from Quang's excellent figures.

Some interesting books I've read: "Archaeology, History, and Custer's Last Battle", by Fox, contains a good study of the Indian's weaponry judging from archeological findings (and of the whole course of the battle, too). "Lakota Noon", by Michno, is a very interesting work which describes the battle after native testimonies - many of the warriors, BTW, appear in Hook's book.

It is known that the warriors at LBH made use of their bows to their advantage, for instance shooting from behind cover without exposing themselves - and of course they were well skilled with them. Also, probably the question of them having a lot of modern repeaters can be at least partly attributed to the attempt to find a convenient explanation for the destruction of Custer's command.

An exciting topic...


Dani

 

[quang]

Thanks, Dani, for the heads-up on the new Osprey title. Richard Hook is one of the most accurate and trustworthy illustrator of Indian subjects in activity. Looking forward to it.

The 'repeater theory' is obviously part of what I'd call the 'Rambo Syndrome', an attempt to rewrite history to make it more suitable to one's inclination/political bia.

To dispel it, one has just to consider the 'rate of fire' and accuracy that could be achieved with the bow and arrow, a weapon that the Plains Indian warrior was trained to use since his childhood.

Furthermore, he didn't need to worry about ammunition supply (a firearm without bullets is useless), over heating and malfunction so prevalent with the contemporary firearms.

One clear advantage of the firearm over the bow and arrow was range. But since the Indian warfare on the Plains was mostly of the skirmishing style (where the opponents fought at close range), that advantage came to nothing.

The Indians used the firearms mostly for hunting. As a matter of fact, they preferred the old flintlock/black powder guns, less sophisticated than the more modern ones but with the clear advantage that they could make their own ammunition, maintenance and repair.

So much for the Hollywood image of the wicked gun trader (invariably dressed in a tall hat with a feather to demonstrate his renegade status :lol: ) delivering crates of Winchester repeaters to the blood-thirsty braves.

Quang

 

[Johan]

About the use of bows and arrows vs. trapdoor springfields: consider what British troops experienced when, themselves armed with brown bess muskets, they where faced in India with the bows and arrows of the natives there. I believe some British soldiers did describe a barrage of arrows raining down on them as much more unnerving , frightening and deadly than being fired at with guns. The soldiers in blue at LBH may have felt the same way as the redcoats in India - an interesting historical parallel, I'd say.

 

[garyjd]

Interesting topic. I saw a documentary on LBH where the site was examined and excavated in places and the events put together much like an investigator would try to reconstruct a crime. It appears that among shells/casings for Springfields in addition to those of Henry rifles were also found that would account for the distruction of Custer's command in addition to or a numerically superior opponent.
It's a very interesting battle that I'm happy to see Native accounts being taken into account. I did pick up the Osprey mentioned and it's a great book with lots of miniature subjects contained between it's covers.~Gary

 

[Johan]

Gary, aren't Henry repeater rifles the predecessor of the 1866 Winchester?Well, of course no Indian would have refused a good fireweapon when they could lay their hands on them, but I guess there weren't that much at LBH.

I also saw a documentary, on subject of the war of the British against the Zulu's, by Ian Knight, an authority in these matters. Well, the Zulu's certainly did NOT have Winchesters :lol: or firearms of any kind, so the author was puzzled as to how it could be that the redcoats were so soundly beaten by the Zulu's.... I believe he reached the conclusion that slowness and malfunctioning of the Martini Henry's may have had something to do with that, compare that to the slow-loading Trapdoor Springfield carbines of Custer's troopers.

Also, Quang recently suggested to me that fe. Crazy Horse covered himself and his horse with "gopher dust, whatever that may be" ... well, I did some research on the net, haven't found much yet, but so far it seems that gopher dust would be an ingredient used in parts of the USA in ... Voodoo magic....
Compare: ...Ian Knight also found out the Zulu's, before the battle, took some hallucinogenic drug that made them fearless - I ask myself: could this Gopher Dust have been something similar? (although Crazy Horse just covered himself with the stuff, he didn't swallow any)

Well, another interesting historic parallel! But really, Gary, I am inclined to believe that the presence of a few braves with repeater rifles at LBH has NOT decided the outcome of the battle - it was rather the bad functioning of the trapdoor springfields and probably the fearlessness of the Indians, coupled with their skills with bow and arrow, that did it.

... Hey Gary, how about a little series of 120mm figures of the above mentioned battles - a blue soldier, a redcoat, a Sioux and a Zulu ??? :lol:

 

[taff]

Hi guys have been reading comments on the big horn and the zulu wars . i have just moved to nc from Wales in the UK,the zulu wars i find very interesting as i used to live 20 miles from Brecon Museum where many of the Victoria cross medals are kept. As in many military engagements that go so very wrong arrogance and underestimating the enemy are key componts to many defeats.

There was a surrgestion at the defeat at Iswan of the South Wales Borders that the ammunition boxes did not help, not easy to get into, also that there were quite a few broken bayonets found on the battle field surrgesting that troops broke them trying to open them no doubt under a certain amount of pressure.
It was also the last time that drummer boys went into battle with the british army due to them all perishing in the most awful fashion sorry to ramble on .Chris edwards