Why no decent WW2 Japanese solider Bust?

[Wlas]

Hi Majnun,
you are right with all of that.
Japaneses made atrocities during this conflict, but can you explain why the soldiers most see in model books or in the contests are the germans (with a lot of SS) ?

Sure I can explain it. A lot has to do with Race ( oh my god he's playing the Race card ) and the tribal nature we still have. Remember the Japanese were interred here, while those with German heritage roamed freely.

As a an American of Polish ancestry I make a point of not painting SS figures
( actually any WW II Germans ).

But many figure painters have a simplistic view. The German uniforms are 'cool'. Their armor 'neat'. Their aircraft 'hot'. And the Germans look so much like 'ourselves'.

 

[georges64]

hé oui trop long pour trouver les bons mots en anglais,
vivement un forum en français

Pareil pour moi, obligé de passer par les outils linguistique de google! Ca devient ch... à force.
J'ai l' adresse d'un forum tout nouveau, tout jeune qui demande à être connu et à acceuillir des membres .
georges.

 

[georges64]

As a an American of Polish ancestry I make a point of not painting SS figures
( actually any WW II Germans ).

But many figure painters have a simplistic view. The German uniforms are 'cool'. Their armor 'neat'. Their aircraft 'hot'. And the Germans look so much like 'ourselves'.

I agree with you about SS figures, but time to time if for a little dio if I need some germans I do them.
Secondly I think you are right !
georges.

 

[Mark S]

Well don't stop now,I'm fascinated by
these crazy tangents you're goin' on!

 

[vergilius]

I have to say it's time to forgive but not to forget otherwise it would be very hard to paint anything at all.
Belgium has been in the centre of most conflicts for almost 2000 years. If we would feel a grudge towards certain countries we shouldn't paint any germans, french, dutch, Austrians, italians, spaniards .....

 

[quang]

But many figure painters have a simplistic view. The German uniforms are 'cool'. Their armor 'neat'. Their aircraft 'hot'. And the Germans look so much like 'ourselves'.

So true!

That's exactly what my dentist –an otherwise educated man- told me. Obviously, he's never heard of Oradour-sur-Glane or worse, he knows about it and it doesn't bother him a bit!

But what the hell! As long as he goes easy on the drill.

Quang

 

[megroot]

Every nation has his violent and cruell history.
The Romans, Greeks, Spartans, Dutch, Belgiums, French, English, Turkish,Marroc,.and many many more.
Every nation who was in conflict don't play by the rules (if there are rule's such as the Geneve convention). So, if we paint figures we have to live with that. Hitler is a person who is made by I thought Andrea but i've seen it only one time on the contest table and was out of competition (WHY??)
Julieus Caesar, Leonidas, Alexander they all killed people, and many more in name of.
Are the cruisaders such peacefull knight's ???? Why we forget that?? They are not abanded from the contest table's.
So, if there is interest in a historic figure to make it, make it.
If somebody wanted to paint it then paint it.

But i cannot see any excuse why they not should make japanese soldiers only because they attackt Pearl Harbork for instance. So paint SS figure's even if they killed on command or not.

I paint even any kind of historic figure good or bad just because i love to paint figures.

And i'm hoping that my bad english is not misunderstood
Just my two cents

marc

 

[Von Bock]

Thanks for the responses .

Well thanks for the responses. I was just curious about the fact there are no Japanese bust out there. As for countries and wars and such. No one is without some bad history we learn by remembering it so it dosen't repeat itself. Not by hating a country or people for all time. Just my 2 cents. Brock

 

[Wlas]

I'm glad I was able to resolve the issue for you Brock. Someone mentioned we went off on tangents. This is not true. Everything was kept on the straight and narrow to further the rationale for the lack of Imperial Japanese WW II busts.
And no one hates countries or people ALL the time. The Modern Germans and Japanese and Italians are some of our best friends. As an individual I have zero problems with post war Germans. But Societal Memory keeps track of the now old fogeys that once wore black shirts. As more time goes by those that kept the memory will be gone as well.
The further we are removed from events the more fascinating the subjects become.

 

[tonydawe]

Can we hear from any of our Japanese planeteers??? Do you have any thoughts on this.
Cheers

 

[unknown01]

I'm Japanese.
English isn't understood well so much, so I may misunderstand.
The people handling a model of a war think it can't always be said that it's bellicose.
In fact, I think it's more detailed than the general public about a war.
It would also be detailed about details of the fault various national ancestors violated of course.
The point may be sometimes more excellent than a war critic.
We're a damage country of the first atomic bomb.
It has passed for about 60 years.
The town as "HIROSIMA" where an atom bomb has been dropped becomes completely clean.
But "DOME" for, a condition in at that time, it's preserved importantly by the cruel form.
This "DOME" is designated as the world's cultural and natural heritage.
I think, the ugliest world's cultural and natural heritage.
A legacy of "negative".
But we live through the oath to give up a war while seeing this building.
My mother dislikes my speaking about a war of an other country.
But I can't think children don't fight a war any more when not offering knowledge as a war to children.
I think there is danger which grows into the child who doesn't find out conversely "the pain of the person".
I think it's necessary that I'm informing children of the next generation as "negative legacy" without concealing the fault an ancestor violated.
A model has a possibility which becomes its means, but also haｓ danger.
A model about such war is the situation such as getting "tacit understanding" including a figure in Japan.
I think we have to speak to a war at the viewpoint where it's very important and subtle.
At least, in Japan....

 

[tonydawe]

Hikaru,

Thank you very much for your response.

I appreciate that 60 years on, WW2 remains a delicate subject in Japan, as well as a "negative legacy" that many Japanese people try very hard to forget. It must be very difficult for Japanese people to live with, and I can understand if they do not want to make models that could be seen to glorify Japan's role in the war.

I agree with you that we need to teach our children about war, so they understand how brutal and destructive it is. I believe military figure painting can play a small role in helping to educate young people about the reality of war, and encourage them to learn from the mistakes of the past. I believe the old saying "Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them."

For me, making figures is NOT about glorifying war, its about honouring the courage, bravery and sacrifice of the ordinary men who fight in those wars, and attempting to portray the hardships and suffering that is common with all soldiers from every nation.

I'm very grateful for your comments Hikaru

Cheers

 

[housecarl]

Me thinking that America won the war, for us all.

 

[HiroshiAirborne]

Hikaru did a great job explaining that, thank you.

I was talking with a clerk in a hobby shop in what I want to say was the Shijo-Kawaramachi shopping district of Kyoto about this very topic.

He said the main reason is because it sits very hard with the older generation and many would just like to forget. He also told me that he expects model companies to start producing a lot more Japanese kits in the future since the younger generation is starting to become more interested in it.

He also told me that there are rumors that there are molds of many Japanese kits being saved for a day when people will actually buy their Japanese-kits and the companies can make a profit on them.

That is what I heard. I'm taking that with a grain of salt, but I figured I would tell you everything he told me.

- Hiroshi

 

[gothicgeek]

naval not army. but japanese

legend productions .... i believe ian at friendship models can supply this

 

[housecarl]

Without attempting to rock the boat when most of us think of WW II Japanese we tend to think of the Rape of Nanking, the Attack on Pearl Harbor, the soul twisted cult of Bushido and countless other earned negatives. Mildly revisionist films such as Letters From Iwo Jima ignored the violent fanaticism and lack of respect for human life which was a primary facet of Japanese culture at that time, not secondary...that made the battle hell on earth.
Perhaps that's why manufacturers shy away from the subject....

The Holocaust was no holiday, it was probably the worse atrocity mankind has ever witnessed. But look at the prevalence of SS figures. This could get messy.

 

[tonydawe]

I think the only way we can resolve this question is for modellers who want to paint WW2 Japanese busts to sculpt them themselves.

This has been a very interesting thread to re-read, and I'm pleased to see so many people from around the world share their thoughts on this subject.

And yes, let's have more bust of Belgian's.

 

[HiroshiAirborne]

It's a real shame that anyone has to shy away from anything in history. I think it's time to branch out and break free from the norm. DML/Dragon has the right idea with their line of WWII Italian infantry, which is the first kits I've ever seen of Italian infantry (Granted I'm only in my twenties).

The Holocaust was no holiday, it was probably the worse atrocity mankind has ever witnessed. But look at the prevalence of SS figures - Housecarl

The SS is considered to be an elite unit in WWII and, like all elite units, they get much more attention than the regular units. Much like in the antique business, you could have the same two German M36 tunics but the one with the SS tabs will ultimately sell for more and attract much more attention from museums than the regular infantry tunic.

(I once sold an SS-Sturmmann (equivalent of a private) Jacket for $2,000 USD to a collector but couldn't sell a regular Infantry Unteroffizer (I believe this is equivalent of a Sergeant) Jacket for more than $1,400 USD.)

The more I think about it, the more I think if there was more light shed on the Japanese of WWII, like maybe more movies, there would be more demand for them. Kinda like the increase in demand of German SS and American 2nd Ranger stuff after "Saving Private Ryan" debuted or the excessive increase on the 101st Airborne (Easy Co. 506th to be exact) after "Band of Brothers" came out. The key here, I think, is putting more Japanese WWII in today's entertainment.

I think now is a good time to shut up since I have done a good deal of ranting. I would like to see Vichy French kits with those Belgian and Japanese busts though.

 

[Jason W.]

Was there any Japanese "heros"? Enlisted men, non-Coms, junior officers that stood out? Guys that made headlines, newsreels, etc.? I'm not a student of the War, but I've never heard of any. I'm sure we can name a dozen or more from each of the other major powers from that war. Alot know the Japanese high command, but any lower ranks? This could be a reason we don't see many figures representing this military power.

Oh, don't forget the Japanese using live Chinese prisoners for bayonet practice. And I believe they did not recognize the Geneva Convention....And their weapons were junk. But "they make such bloody good cameras".

Sorry, if somebody already mentioned any of the above.

 

[jjgurk]

I'm currently reading Max Hasting's "NEMESIS", The Battle For Japan 1944-45 and it is an excellent and sobering read. There are quite a few personal insights from both sides of the conflict. As to men who stood out, there could be a few, but this book has really given me some terrific insight into the endgame of the war in the Pacific. Highly reccomended.
John