1st Empire Cuirassier

[Bailey]

Here are some images of a model 1810 cuirassier helmet and a model 1812 cuirass pulled from the cowan auctions site. You can check there for more images
http://cowanauctions.com/auctions/catalog.aspx?id=434

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Something doesn't look quite right with this .

 

[megroot]

Something doesn't look quite right with this .

Agree, Looks like a reanactment cuirass, in the wrong colors.

Marc

 

[Bailey]

Is there a reason you think that? Could you elaborate on what doesn't look right? This piece is being sold at auction by a reputable source, so I expect they've had it evaluated by experts in the field. Here is their description:

"French. Steel helmet body, dated "1812" on the reverse, embossed brass comb with black horsehair tuft and plume, brass chin scales. Bearskin turban, brass trimmed leather visor, 11" red feather plume and the liner are modern restorations. The cuirass with a heavy steel breast plate with brass head rivets and proof stamps. Has a dent from a musket ball on the right front waist. Iron back plate with similar proof marks; leather backed brass shoulder scales and an older replacement waist belt. Includes a contemporary red quilted vest and display stand. Includes a folder of supporting research.

Condition: Good. Helmet has been cleaned and with restorations as noted. Cuirass with light age toning and service wear."

And Marc, what colors are you referring to? Here's a reference image, looks the same to my eyes.

I'm not an expert in this field and, if there is something wrong with the artifacts, I'm genuinely interested to know what. But, for now, I really don't understand your comments.

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Well I was right , the helmet is a restoration , it was posted as authentic , I am not so sure about the brass straps on the Cuirass also as they look a bit new .

But with all these things a auctions ; its buyer beware .

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Here is what I have for ref .

Just as a little footnote ; hear is a picture of napoleons Bicorne in a Berlin museum which is reputedly worn at Waterloo . did he actually wear this one at the battle ; not so sure as there are others kicking around boasting the same .

 

[Colin_Fraser]

One problem is that the display lining distorts the appearance. Colour is right but that is all.

 

[Paul Kernan]

Another shot from Les Invalides to add to the file

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Another shot from Les Invalides to add to the file

Huge difference in quality , but this is an officers cuirass and helmet , but no doubt authentic . I have seen this at the museum and it is a splendid piece .

ron

 

[Huw63]

Time I caught up on this forum. Cuirass is the wrong shape around the shoulders, the dent (proofing mark) is way too deep and the front and back don't appear to line up. The lining could come out of the Star Wars set, the helmet crest shows sides of early empire with the front of a late empire crest. I hope whoever bought these items knew what they were buying .

A belated tuppence worth.

Cheers

Huw

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

I see it sold for $4312.50. I think a genuine period piece would have fetched more than that?

Claude

 

[Huw63]

I see it sold for $4312.50. I think a genuine period piece would have fetched more than that?

Claude

I saw something at around 30-40,000 euro recently but that seems to be a reproduction price. As a comparison a genuine Waterloo medal sells for about £2,000 today.

Cheers

Huw

 

[peedee]

If you look at the front of the brass crest and closer at the shape of the helmet two things seem evident.
Firstly the overall shape with ut's bacward leaning rake is of Minerva design.
With the peak also bring fur covered, I think this is an officers helmet of about 1813 and used in 1814.
The addition to the crest of a royalist silvered cartouche does add evidence to this possibility.
From 1815, The Kings Garde du Corps, Les Mousquetiers de Monsieur also wore these helmets with a white plume.

So......this could be a Royalist Garde du Corps Helmet recycled by a Cuirassier officier that survived Waterloo.
As such......I say original with a great history.

This Cuirass looks fine to me but new shoulder scales would give the item a longer service life legitimately up to the 1870's or even beyond.
Why would you throw away a perfect cuirass and order a new one when repairing it within the Regiment is easy.

Love all this

Paul.

 

[smudger1960]

Here are some images of a model 1810 cuirassier helmet and a model 1812 cuirass pulled from the cowan auctions site. You can check there for more images
http://cowanauctions.com/auctions/catalog.aspx?id=434

Can't open the link

 

[Huw63]

If you look at the front of the brass crest and closer at the shape of the helmet two things seem evident.
Firstly the overall shape with ut's bacward leaning rake is of Minerva design.
With the peak also bring fur covered, I think this is an officers helmet of about 1813 and used in 1814.
The addition to the crest of a royalist silvered cartouche does add evidence to this possibility.
From 1815, The Kings Garde du Corps, Les Mousquetiers de Monsieur also wore these helmets with a white plume.

So......this could be a Royalist Garde du Corps Helmet recycled by a Cuirassier officier that survived Waterloo.
As such......I say original with a great history.

This Cuirass looks fine to me but new shoulder scales would give the item a longer service life legitimately up to the 1870's or even beyond.
Why would you throw away a perfect cuirass and order a new one when repairing it within the Regiment is easy.

Love all this

Paul.

The only thing is that the cuirass lacks the etched line which provide ann inner line and border with rivets midway between this ine and the edges of first enpire cuirasses. For gerneral officers and above the line might be shown as laurel leaves but this would be on all lines. Thus I believe the cuirass is more recent than first empire.

Cheers

Huw

 

[Rob]

Here is another page (French militaria specialist) with an authenticated Officers Cuirass and Helmet from the 1er Regiment. Dated between 1810-1814. Several excellent close up images on the site.

https://www.bertrand-malvaux.com/en...e-cuiurassiers-1810-1814-premiere-empire.html

 

[Rob]

French Heavy Cavalry pattern sword and scabbard. Dealer confirms authenticity but has no stated provenance;

Other images on the source site including close ups of the strap ring mounting and inside the hand guard:

http://www.andrewbottomley.com/a-rare-french-napoleonic-eracuirassiersheavy-cavalry-sword-complete-in-scabbard-ref-3598-12888-p.asp

 

[Jaybo]

The late great Shep Paine had an authentic helmet & cuirass in his spectacular collection years ago. I was told that when he passed the ‘heavy wallet’ brigade from across the pond descended on Chicago and bought these pieces and many others.