3D rapid prototyping, a sample

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Calvin

A Fixture
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
945
Location
Uhu?
Hello,
first of all I would like to make clear that the piece showed here is not a commercial release, it is only an evaluation sample made using the 3D rapid prototyping process driven by a computer program.

There are no copies of it out there more the ones showed here and exclusively used used during the production process for testing purpose. Of course absolutely nothing will be released without an official license. As you may understand this is not a garage kit.

Consider also that I am just showing what has been made by other guys. I only took part into the production process with the final resin casting of the original prototype. I do not have at all the required skill to produce those kind of prototypes, all the hard work has been made by the guys from Atalaya Miniatures ([email protected]), a spanish factory.

The subject used for this prototype has been choosed to check the possibilities offered by this type of rendering. It is a complex enough subject with a lot of fine details on the armour and very thin items like the helmet decoration and the sword. The scale used to render to subject has been another step to evaluate the final quality of the production, the figure just stands 10cm tall (less than 4"). To give you an idea about its size, consider that the blade of the sword has a thickness of less than 1mm on the cutting side.

As you already know the basic process consists in rendering an high density polygonal 3D model (up to 4 millions for this one, up to 8 millions of polygons for some other kind of models). Once done with the basic rendering the model is prototyped through a 3D printer. That master is next used to make a mold to reproduce the original, in this case in polyurethane resin. This prototype has not been made using a milling machine but through another type of 3D printer which gives the possibility to achieve a very high final quality. It is obvious that the prototype could be reproduced at almost any scale, 10, 20, 30cm etc.

Sorry for the very low quality of the pictures, but with the exception of the finished (painted) piece, what you see here has been shooted in a hurry just to document the production process without caring too much about the "artistic" look.

The last pictures showing a painted version (in colours and in black) are not a computer (photoshop) trick, but a shot of the real one (the resin copy once painted).

The picture you will find at the end of this post it is a link which will show you the 3D model used for the rendering. It is a video, hope the link will work.

Of course any kind of comments are more than welcome.

Thanks for looking.

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That is really interesting. The only thing that did not look convincing on the figure was the cape. The folds do not look very natural. They look like they were copied from a computer graphic rather than from life. Given this type of technology is still in it's infancy I'm sure over time that things such as deep undercuts and a more natural look to such folds will be made more possible.~Gary
 
Well, I think we are once again debating about personal, subjective taste. "Folds does not look right" is quite different from "folds does not look right to me", but it seems you always forget about that little difference. And in my opinion it is not a so little difference because personally I think that your sculpting style and taste is not exactly the one to be taken as reference, at least for me. Sometimes how one tells things is more important rather than what one says. Folds look right to me, better than most of the figures currently available on the market. Just my opinion as you expressed yours.

The overall figure has been designed from zero through a 3D graphics program, not "copied from a computer graphic rather than from life". The design has been made by a real guy, the only difference in respect to a sculpted figure is that the artist didn't use clay but a mouse and millions of polygons, the basic unit to compose/draw a 3D object.

If the artist decided that the cape and folds must look that way it is up to his artistic vision, I think. I do not like at all how folds look on most of figures, with that unreal "folding" and without considering that in the real life folding always depends from the fabric type. A guy who has been able to draw such a figure and those undercuts on the rest of the figure could be able to draw what he wants, but he is still a real guy, not a machine, so he is supposed to draw following his artistic taste and vision.

The realism and fineness of the piece is just insane, maybe the cape has been rendered that way to be used as a "contrappunto", from an artistic point of view, to the unbelievable lightness of the face/armour. There was a great artist used to say "even the most fine thread of grass can be seen in the desert", what you see always depends from the relative contrast with the overall scene.

This kind of technology is not in its infancy, 3D rendering computer programs and 3D printers are available from ages and the details (as well as the undercuts level) you can obtain through this kind of technology is just impossible to be achieved manually.

On this piece there are details which are smaller than 0,2 mm., not cm. but mm. It is the first figure I ever seen which has the mail in scale. The details of the helmet and sword decoration have the exact thickness required by the choosen scale (it is a 10cm figure). And last but not least the technology used on this project is one of the more advanced and not worldwide available.
 
Thanks for posting these Luca, great to see what's possible. This technology has a lot of promise if it's cost-effective for our area of interest.

Of course absolutely nothing will be released without an official license.
:D

It is obvious that the prototype could be reproduced at almost any scale, 10, 20, 30cm etc.
That is one of the specific abilities of this technique that I think is potentially most interesting; although there are inherent scale issues when you go very small as a direct reduction (over-scale detail might be necessary for practical reasons, as covered in a couple of past discussions).

Sorry for the very low quality of the pictures...
They're fine, really. The closeups of the resin piece are just made harder to see clearly because of the heavy 'watermarking' but we can still get a decent idea of the level of detail.

Man, would I love to see a snarling Uruk-Hai done this way!

FWIW I agree that the drapery is the only obvious weak point, although I'd like to see a back view of the painted figure to get a better idea of their true form - they do look much better in the painted photo than the plasticy appearance in the renders (right of the first image) from the diffuse lightsource.

I'm a longtime viewer, and fan, of computer graphics and clothing always has been one of the major problem areas; even on something where other parts are astonishingly realistic, drapery can still feature generic or even naive-looking modelling. Although there can be some software limitations these days clothing tends to be limited more by the abilities of the modeller, many seem to be more technologically skilled than artistic because of the nature of the job.

Einion
 
Well, I think we are once again debating about personal, subjective taste. "Folds does not look right" is quite different from "folds does not look right to me", but it seems you always forget about that little difference. And in my opinion it is not a so little difference because personally I think that your sculpting style and taste is not exactly the one to be taken as reference, at least for me. Sometimes how one tells things is more important rather than what one says. Folds look right to me, better than most of the figures currently available on the market. Just my opinion as you expressed yours.


This kind of technology is not in its infancy, 3D rendering computer programs and 3D printers are available from ages and the details (as well as the undercuts level) you can obtain through this kind of technology is just impossible to be achieved manually.

Luca, My taste in sculpting has nothing to do with my comment. I did not say "the folds do not look right". I said, "The folds do not look very natural. They look like they were copied from a computer graphic rather than from life." You said the figure was designed using a 3D graphics program and to ME the cape/cloak looks the way articles of clothing do when created using a computer. What did you mean by "it is not a so little difference because personally I think that your sculpting style and taste is not exactly the one to be taken as reference, at least for me.?" Again, nowhere in my posting do I reference MY sculpting style or tastes. I'm not bashing anyone's work, I'm just commenting on what I thought when looking at the overall figure. The details on figure, especially the armor are really crisp. Even the best computer programs have their limitations, regardless of how talented or skilled the artist. So aside from the cloak, which I could live with if I had a copy of the figure is really nice. I know technology such as this has been around a while. How far advanced was photography when it was 20, 50, 100 years old compared to today? That's all I meant.

Hopefully you'll get more responses that will agree that this technology is an interesting medium in which to create a figure. Now it might only be a matter of time before someone stumbles upon my initial post, only to start crunching numbers so they can recalculate how often I post negative comments towards someone elses work.~Gary
 
Wow Luca this is Awesome!
Just a couple of clicks away from a replicator on the starship Enterprise.
It's like Kip Dynamite sang..."I love technology" ;-)
G9
 
Luca,
I was first exposed to this technology over 15 years ago through work. The first thing that popped into my mind was how it could be used to make a Tiger I :)
Since I began painting figures, I've often wondered if it could be used in the same manner. The pieces I've held in my hands were no where near the quality I'm seeing here. Very impressive.
I think the deciding factor may no longer be the quality or level of the detail but rather the quality of the style the figure has. I think that as the skill of the "sculptor" increases, there will be no limit to how this technology will be used.
Thanks very much for posting these pictures. It's a real pleasure to see them.
Craig
 
Hi all,

I have been in touch with 3D rapid prototyping processes for a few years now through my professional work (I build architectural models) so I am quite familiar with the possibilities and limitations of this kind of technology.
The sample shown here is by far the best example of a computer generated figure I have seen so far.
A big part of it is due to a advanced machine that was used to generate this figure. Majority of this machines generate objects in layers that are a fraction of a millimeter tick, making the surface a bit ruff if you look at it closely. There are no such surface imperfections visible on this figure so either the machine top of the line or the surface was treated before it was cast in resin (which I find hard to believe given the detail).
The other part necessary for such results is a flawless computer generated 3D image/model. All of 4+millions of polygons have to be linked perfectly leaving no gaps or the machine will "go a bit crazy" every time it encounters a gap, resulting in strange surface imperfections.

This figure is a living proof that it can be done at this point in time. IMHO it is still a bit more complicated (and expensive) than doing it the "old-fashion" way and there are some limits in 3d modeling of some forms (particularly drapery as Gary and Einion pointed out) but the possibilities with the development of this technology are endless.

I do not see 3D modeling as a competition to sculpting but a way of bringing traditional modeling to a new level. I think that the two methods will compliment one another in a way that you will use certain computer generated items in your sculpts or vice versa (in this case sculpting a cape on a computer generated figure for example).

Just my two euro cents,

Best regards,

Luka
 
One subject that often comes up is if this type of technology will ever completely replace the need for a "human" to do the work? There seems to be that "something" that a person is able to achieve a machine cannot...not for a long while anyway.Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the technology can comment.~Gary
 
Sculptin' by computer......

Luca,

This is a very interesting post. Having worked in the toy industry and having some familiarity with the movie business, I am aware of the process used here.

Yes, the figure was done by an artist! It was sculpted, but instead of being done in clay or putty, it was done on a computer screen. As a sculpture by an artist, it is subject to all of the personal vagaries displayed in any sculpture. In this case, the computer is just a sculpting tool in the same sense that my tooothpicks and hobby knife are.

For us troglodytes, this is a concept that can be a little hard to get our brains around. What is very interesting to me is not the sculpture itself, but the QUALITY of the finished product. WOW!!!

I have seen prototyping but the extreme finesse shown here is beyond anything i have seen before. For an "analog" sculptor like myself, this kind of quality is only obtainable through lots of sweat and toil. I never worried about the computer geeks taking my place before. But this kind of quality is hard to argue with.

The only saving grace for us troglodytes is that the actual "sculpting" still needs to be done by an artist. This cannot be done by just any computer geek, but must be done by somebody who knows how to sculpt. There are also 3-D scanners now that can actually scan a real object or person, feed the result into one of these prototyping programs and reproduce the piece in miniature...... a "perfect" duplicate of reality! Untouched by human hands.

However, I have seen the results of this prcess as well. And, guess what? The sculptures are woooden and lifeless. They still had to hire "real" artists to go back and make them life-like! But this limits the artist's job to that of "clean-up boy". At least in some realms, the sculptor while not being made obsolete, is becoming a minor player rather than the maestro.

Kind of Scary!! It is a good thing I have taken up writing!!!

Cheers!!

Mike
 
I wish i could do that. When i see my son working with Photoshop it is for me (i grow up with the commodore etc till the pc from this time) unbelieveble. Now what this guy can do with this technology is awesome.
But i really wanted ( i think within 10 years) that the sculptors will go on sculpting. When i was a photoamateur i wass pissed off with the digital pictures. Now these days i cannot without digital picture's.
I hope that this is not the case with the figures.
So Gary, Alan, and other sculptors keep on sculpting and amaze me with your creations.
But i'm afraid that this technology is soon availbable for the mass.

marc
 
Some shots of the master I used for casting, some pics directly by Agustin and some more from what I took before molding.

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and this to give you an idea about what they are able to draw for 3D rendering (please remeber that I only did the resin casting, all the hard work about the rapid 3D prototyping has been made by Agustin and the guys from Atalaya Miniatures)

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Luca,
Whoa...the man in the throne (King Arthur?) looks spectacular.
I've been thinking on this subject some more since yesterday.
I'm wondering if by using the computer to creat the master (as it were), will the figures end up losing their "human' quality? By that I mean will the potential for perfect straight lines and symmetry, totally flat and smooth surfaces and exact duplication of patterns cause the figures to become cold and sterile looking? Sort of like comparing hand crafted antique furniture with todays mass produced machine fabricated pieces.
This isn't a question directly for you or your friends at Atalaya.
More just my thinking out loud :)
Still, both pieces look fabulous.
Thanks again for sharing them.
Craig
 
Hi

Hello to everybody.
In the first place to be appreciated the interest shown by our work personally, it is for my a pride. He wanted to appreciate Luca especially their collaboration.
As for the character of the throne, he is the King Théoden (I attach it photographs) sat down in their real throne.
He wanted to remember that all the images are prototypes only carried out with technical interest for our project. All the shown characters are based on the designs of Lord of the rings property of New line Cinema. We don't have license to sell this product. We have used some of their characters so that you could compare with something well-known. I appreciate your interest very much. A greeting Agustín Chapa Atalaya Miniatures.
Thanks.
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Yes, the quality of details is just insane, I never seen something like. The resin casting holds detail perfectly, but thay are hard to see through a picture due to the light reflections on the beige surface. On the metal surface they are clearly visible.

Basically, as Mike said, I think that stuff as just another, different tool. Way different from the ones everybody is used to, but basically nothing more than tools, no magic at all.

In my opinion one should also consider the kind of psychology we all have towards "machines" (me included). Assuming that perfection is not from this world, one tends to consider as a great artist a human able to reproduce as "perfect" as possible a subject, while on the other hand if such a result is known as produced by a machine one tends to consider it as lifeless, a bit too cold.

Considering that there is always a guy doing something behind the machine, I think it is just a matter of the vision he has of the subject and the way he draws it.
 
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