British Lancer Cap Lines HELP.

[mick3272]

Greetings,
I am looking for guidance as to the route of Lancer cape lines for other ranks from the attachment to the cap its route around the body until the two acorns appear on the chest. I have three ref pics below but by referring to them I am getting lost.

Any help would be great.
Mick

 

[peedee]

Mick
I would ignore the mannekin completely and only go by original photos, or Simkin.
What period/year are you working on mate?

Paul.

 

[mick3272]

Mick
I would ignore the mannekin completely and only go by original photos, or Simkin.
What period/year are you working on mate?

Paul.

Hi Paul,
Thanks for the PM.
I agree ignore the manakin its a clutter F.
Working 0n 1881/90
Im more inclined to go with the centre Pic as it is an actual photograph.
I am assuming that from the acorn end which is attached to the left shoulder.
The cord crosses the chest passes under the right shoulder cord, down and across
his back reappearing just below the 4th button on the left.
Back under the shoulder cord to the back of the neck, where it splits to reappear at the throat.
It then goes straight down BUT where to then Under the LEFT OR RIGHT arm to attach to the lance cap.

In relation to the top print It does not go either side of the neck and it can be followed if you assume the end that
is attached to the right shoulder cord is so attached as it is not used on head dress being worn.

So which is correct.
Confused from Folkestone.

 

[peedee]

Top print,
Surely the loop or end terminal will be fastened to right epaulette button in a soldier like fashion, if the lance cap is not worn or it would hang down his back sir?

Assuming logic and knowing army thinking.

Paul.

 

[mick3272]

Top print,
Surely the loop or end terminal will be fastened to right epaulette button in a soldier like fashion, if the lance cap is not worn or it would hang down his back sir?

Assuming logic and knowing army thinking.

Paul.

Yes top print makes sense. as you say.

But how does the photograph one work out ????????????
Think I need to phone a friend. Where are you Martin T.
Mick

 

[peedee]

Photo 1 is purely ceremonial dismounted or levee order where the end is looped around the neck only I would assume when wearing sidecap or peaked cap
This is the origin of how when pistols were carried later by all ranks, they used the same method of securing the pistol lanyard too.
simples.

Paul

 

[mick3272]

Photo 1 is purely ceremonial dismounted or levee order where the end is looped around the neck only I would assume when wearing sidecap or peaked cap
This is the origin of how when pistols were carried later by all ranks, they used the same method of securing the pistol lanyard too.
simples.

Paul

You have lost me.
Top print In my mind looks correct. hooked to shoulder button when not required and returned to the rear to be attached to the cap when in use.

The Middle Photo of Farrier Sgt are you saying instead of being passed under the arm and hooked to the shoulder button as above he has split it around is neck and hooked it to something out of view at the front. Could this be a regimental quirk???
Mick

 

[Nap]

Hi Guys

Interesting subject , I am contident regiments had their slight deviations to the regs for sure , so many different depictions of the lines being worn.

Had a look at the 1846 regs which states ,.....

"Lines to pass round the body and secured to the back of the cap by a loop " ....

Mmm not exactly much help

Will keep looking

A nice figure subject as well

Nap


Looking at the middle picture I woukd say that...

The lines are round the collar with an olive at the back middle from which lines come in 1 groupsof 2 , under his arm then going to another olive at tge front lower collar .

The lines running across his body put under his epaulette on button the leading across tge body to a hook to hang down in a small drop of the tassels etc

 

[mick3272]

Hi Guys

Interesting subject , I am contident regiments had their slight deviations to the regs for sure , so many different depictions of the lines being worn.

Had a look at the 1846 regs which states ,.....

"Lines to pass round the body and secured to the back of the cap by a loop " ....

Mmm not exactly much help

Will keep looking

A nice figure subject as well

Nap


Looking at the middle picture I woukd say that...

The lines are round the collar with an olive at the back middle from which lines come in 1 groupsof 2 , under his arm then going to another olive at tge front lower collar .

The lines running across his body put under his epaulette on button the leading across tge body to a hook to hang down in a small drop of the tassels etc

Photo 1 is purely ceremonial dismounted or levee order where the end is looped around the neck only I would assume when wearing sidecap or peaked cap
This is the origin of how when pistols were carried later by all ranks, they used the same method of securing the pistol lanyard too.
simples.

Paul

I have spent the last couple of hours looking at this and scratching me head and other bits. How does this sound.:-
The Cap line is as per Print No 1. but instead of the end being hooked to the button of the right shoulder cord.
It just comes up and is looped over his head instead. If we saw the rear of his collar we would see just the clip at the back of the neck.

Mick

 

[peedee]

I have spent the last couple of hours looking at this and scratching me head and other bits. How does this sound.:-
The Cap line is as per Print No 1. but instead of the end being hooked to the button of the right shoulder cord.
It just comes up and is looped over his head instead. If we saw the rear of his collar we would see just the clip at the back of the neck.

Mick

That's what I am trying to say Mick you are looking at different orders of dress.
1st pic is walking out dress 2nd is some sort of field service or parade.

 

[mick3272]

That's what I am trying to say Mick you are looking at different orders of dress.
1st pic is walking out dress 2nd is some sort of field service or parade.

Hi Paul,
Yes. I was looking at the vertical line as if it ran from the top to the bottom ending by his waist belt not the other way so it ended at the neck as I should have done.
Thanks for all your help
Mick

 

[valiant]

I had this problem when I did the 17th lancer for Model Cellar a while ago. If you have the Fosten (I think) book, Into the Valley of Death, the photos and illustrations give a good indication of where the caplines go, front and back. Im assuming that when the cap wasnt worn, the loose end was fastened to a button or epaulette, as per the first pic. The only thing with that pic, though, is the lanyard part seems to be missing from the collar/neck.......!

 

[mick3272]

Thanks Steve,
I think berween us we have it cracked. I hope.
Mick

 

[peedee]

These caplines are a single length with an olive at each end. To use them they are folded in half and a matching cord toggle is passed over the fold onto the cords, this is a tight friction fit and looks like a knot.
The caplines can then be fitted to the rear of the lance cap and the toggle slid up to tighten and close the loop.
the remaining cord is then passed down behind and under the right epaulette strap, over the chest, back under the epaulette , round and back once more.
The final drape is across the chest to the left top buttons of the plastron and fed behind the closed buttons and back out again to hang loose.

When the lance cap is not worn the cords are still fastened in the same manner around the body, but the loose end is brought up under the right arm to fasten to the right epaulette button, and the toggle tightened as in walking out dress or the toggle is loosened enough for a loop to drape around the neck.

I am so sorry I couldn't post this properly earlier, but I have been chasing round all day and only able to post snatches of an answer each time.

Paul.

 

[mick3272]

Hi Paul.

Yes we have it all understood. Thanks for the write up

Mick who is no longer but

 

[Viking Bob]

Come a bit late on This, the 1st pic is 1903 to about 1908. I have the book PeeDee mentioned. I will trawl through it for the cap lines as I seem to remember it is mentioned.

 

[mick3272]

Come a bit late on This, the 1st pic is 1903 to about 1908. I have the book PeeDee mentioned. I will trawl through it for the cap lines as I seem to remember it is mentioned.

Thanks Bob,
I have it cracked now. So please dont put yourself out So unless it is very handy
I am happy mate.
Thanks for looking
Mick

 

[mick3272]

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REVIEW ORDER DEFINITION.​

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Below shows a Photo ( Hand Coloured) entitled Sgt Review Order. I note he is not wearing a pouch belt. Were they not worn in Review Order ????​

Thanks Mick​

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