Crested Helmets

[DEL]

Hi all,
before I start to slap on some paint I'm looking for a bit of info please.
On a crested helmet of the early to mid 14th Century would the 'gold' elements like a crown be painted yellow or gilded ?
Would status of the individual affect whether it was painted or gilded ?
Any help much appreciated as always
Regards
Derek

 

[pinsel]

hello
crests did occure on helmets of pothelmet type wich have no visors.which is due to the fact that an crest would hamper the tilting funktion of an helmet.
this crests where seemingly made by cuir boilie say leather boiled in bees wax and pressed in form with woodenforms.others where made from parchment and gesso which is an kind of special plaster which is used untill today for ceiling decorations.those thing where painted adorned with fabrics mabe some wooden smaller parts.and gilding why not.
in this scale it surely does not matter if you use yellows ornages or an golden ink.
only an small number of crests did survive.they where used in tilting up to the 15 century.in warfare they cheases mid 1350 ties.
because of the delicate nature they surely would have not withstand the harrases of an battlefield.
and seemingly only and small number of them was hold worthy to be kept inarsenals.
so only some did made it till today.like the horns of the PRANKE HELMET which might be an addition of the 1500 to an helmet around 1300.
i would say you can paint your crest in an colourfull look.even one must say that some colours like purple are highlöy scarce in heraldic devices of this time.so better be not to avant garde in choice of colour.the classic basic paints should do it well
cheer

 

[DEL]

Markus
Thanks for such a full answer, much appreciated.
The reason for asking was I'm aware that there are convensions regarding heraldry although I'm not sure when these became accepted practice.Given that the figure will be a King, I wanted to determine whether there was anything definitive relating to crests or if they always used flat yellow and white as 'Or' and 'Argent'.
The figure will be a 90mm Robert the Bruce so I'll go with gold printers inks and some washes for a bit of bling.
Cheers
Derek

 

[pinsel]

hello
well robert the bruce is often shown in an open faced bascinet with crown on its brow.
its possible he wore it.or he relied on the full pot helmet.here the funeral helmet of the BLACK PRICE leaps to mind.he rests his head in its tombeffigee on an pothelmet which has an crest of an leppard which tops an red cap which was in such form worn at court by nobles framed by hermine fur..and this is encircled by an crown.
its written too, that Henry V had at augincourt one one of the decorated tops of his crown decorating his helmet hacked away by an axe
so one could think they where worn by kings on the helmet.and those where surely out of metall and maybe even gildet or decorated with enamelled plaquards or precious stones.i think some bling on your miniature will look not out of place.
medieval era was very colourfull so the figures can show this splendour
cheers

 

[Einion]

Would status of the individual affect whether it was painted or gilded ?

In short, yes. Wealthy - gold (or latten/brass or bronze). Not wealthy, or perhaps for utilitarian items - yellow paint*.

The reason for asking was I'm aware that there are convensions regarding heraldry although I'm not sure when these became accepted practice.

Very early. No matter the rank of the individual, painted representations of arms would generally use paint without any leafing for example. But for 3D items (and to some extent, embroidery) it's a best-guess scenario unless you have some specific info to go on.

*Bear in mind that they didn't have Cadmium Yellow back then

Einion

 

[DEL]

Einion
Thanks for this.
When I think how much I've paid consultants over the years for in some cases poor to average information, I just wonder what the monetary value of the advice provided free and with such good grace on Pf would amount to.
Regards
Derek

 

[renarts]

Just pay it forward......;-)

There are several types of yellows used in medieval painting. Where as gold leafing may be used for parade or funerary crests or for high ceremonial uses there are plenty of substitutes used medievally that can make things "gold like".
To, the heraldic blazon of "or" represents gold in all its forms. It does not distinguish between metalic gold or yellow, nor does it specify the tone or hue of yellow (or gold).

Yellow ochre is an earth pigment and varies from bright yellow to olive. Its mixed with mediums to make stains to opaque colors.

Orpiment is a bright yellow and comes from auripigmentum, (the color of gold). Derived from a sulphide of arsenic found in nature as a stone. It so resembled gold that alchemists tried to extract gold from it. Orpiment was a pretty regular component of medieval painters ti imitate gold and in its natural state has a metallic flake to it. Orpiment did have problems with being mixed with certain other paints and could cause problems. Colors like verdigris or lead white would cause a reaction and the paint would fail or corrode. Sometime causing decay of the surface it was painted on from the reaction.

Bile yellows were a substitute for orpiment and were made from fish gall or bile, calcium, vinegar and chalk.

Giallorino/Massicot is another earth pigment and may have been derived from the earth pigment and lead and antimony. Its described in medeival texts as a "very attractive yellow" . This was used to lighten other colors without turning them pastel. i.e. added to green or red much like we use yellow to make highlights of green without truning it sagey or to tred to make a warm highlight rather than pink.

Another cheat was to laquer white metals to make them look gold. Putting a yellow stained laquer over tin and silver to give a gold look. (so it seems the technique of painting tamiya clear yellow over brightened metal on figures is nothing new).

Mosaic gold is a sulphide of tin and was used from the 13thc. on in western europe. It was used as an illuminator's gold and was a substitute for gold leafing in manuscripts and on some panel painting. It would look like a bronze powder and was mixed with a medium to paint.

Celandine was mercury mixed with egg yolk and stained yellow with celandine to give it a gold metallic sheen.

There were also several stains and paints made with aloes, caballines and hepatics. This over tins and silver had a nice gold effect.

Saffron was also used to produce yellows. Also Buckthorn, weld and fustic.

So you can see there are plenty of yellows to paint your crests and shields with. And they can range the gambit from metallic to yellow to achieve the results.