Dumbed-down education

[Blind Pew]

Yes, this language of ours is constantly evolving. I think I read somewhere that text expressions like 'LOL' & 'FUBAR' were in common usage amongst the Morse code and telegraph operators especially in WWII.
Although somehow, I look at all that crap and think it's regressing.
Thing is, texting a mate is one thing. Writing properly is another and I would have thought these 'graduates' ought to be able to tell the difference.

 

[valiant]

I think that we (over a certain age!) have the education and experience to understand the difference and the occasions in which we can or cannot use slang or text speak. What is becoming increasingly evident is that the many of the current school age generation do not appreciate when it is appropriate to use text speak or when they should be using formal written English, for example, examination scripts, letters of application, CVs, etc.

 

[DEL]

I think that we (over a certain age!) have the education and experience to understand the difference and the occasions in which we can or cannot use slang or text speak. What is becoming increasingly evident is that the many of the current school age generation do not appreciate when it is appropriate to use text speak or when they should be using formal written English, for example, examination scripts, letters of application, CVs, etc.

Spot on. It's context, young people in my experience are pretty smart and in the main do use situation appropriate language.
Given that text speak is pretty much an embedded 'language' I'd like to think some learning about it's use is taught in school.

 

[Babelfish]

What is becoming increasingly evident is that the many of the current school age generation do not appreciate when it is appropriate to use text speak or when they should be using formal written English, for example, examination scripts, letters of application, CVs, etc.

+1 to that. It's not just abbreviated "txt spk" that's an issue though. The wider problem is that standards of spelling, grammar and punctuation have really slipped.

- Steve

 

[billyturnip]

Steve, I think it would be fairer to say the standards have been allowed to slip. That's not the fault of the younger generation but the older one.

 

[valiant]

I agree, Billy - I made a conscious decision to leave mainstream education for a lot of reasons to do with what I considered to be bad practice and lack of focus on important issues. There was too much emphasis on teaching to exams and not enough on producing rounded individuals.

I can now concentrate on teaching actual practical skills that industry requires and not have to constantly "assess student progress" by holding artificial tests at regular intervals which have no actual use apart from filling folders with data that no one ever reads!

 

[Chrisr]

Steve, I think it would be fairer to say the standards have been allowed to slip. That's not the fault of the younger generation but the older one.

How true Roger!!

 

[tonydawe]

Surely the point is that Modern English is a dynamic, fluid language (or to be more correct, a series of parallel and concurrent languages) which is constantly evolving, mixing and changing through the proliferation of English as a global language, the influence of non-English speakers developing hybrid English (such as Chinese-English or "Engrish") and the ubiquitous nature of social media.

We live in a world where modern political discourse has to be reduced to 240 characters in a Twitter feed in a order to reach a global audience, which leaves no room for nuance, subtlety or poetry. It's not that its better or worse than it was before: it's just different. Those of us who were fortunate enough to be well educated might cringe when we hear the way our language is being tortured and bastardised by younger generations, but surely it has always been this way, and hopefully always will be. This is how you keep a language alive and how you keep a culture alive.

If you want an example of a language that is dying and losing vitality, look at the decline of French as a spoken language, and consider the desperate attempts by successive French Government's to attempt to preserve and protect French as the official language in many former French colonies in Africa and the Pacific, as well as it France itself. To be frank, French is heading down the same path at Latin. It will eventually become an academic language spoken by scholars but will be overwhelmed by a world that is adopting English as the global language of commerce, politics and online.

As a writer, I despair at the standard of grammar and punctuation exhibited by recent university graduates and I realise that the fault lies with the school system, not the students.

 

[Babelfish]

As a writer, I despair at the standard of grammar and punctuation exhibited by recent university graduates and I realise that the fault lies with the school system, not the students.

That was exactly my point Tony. The natural evolution of language over time is something entirely different.

Bad spelling, bad punctuation and bad grammar are just that: Bad spelling, bad punctuation and bad grammar. Nothing more, nothing less.

- Steve

 

[Chrisr]

The natural evolution of language over time is something entirely different.

Bad spelling, bad punctuation and bad grammar are just that: Bad spelling, bad punctuation and bad grammar. Nothing more, nothing less.

- Steve

I agree Steve. The evolution of the language has always been a part of English, and will continue to be so. One only has to read the OED to see the change in the meaning of certain words - sometimes now quite the opposite to the original meaning. That's not an issue. As you say, its the bad grammar, bad punctuation and bad spelling that's the problem - plus the bastardisation of the language through text language in written work other than texts.

To be frank, French is heading down the same path at Latin. It will eventually become an academic language spoken by scholars but will be overwhelmed by a world that is adopting English as the global language of commerce, politics and online.

I am not sure we will see this for a long time Tony - just take Flemish; spoken by a minority of people but it is still strong in parts of Belgium. Welsh, once banned by the English in Welsh schools, is making a comeback, small though it may be, in some areas of Wales.

We better be careful down here that Chinese doesn't overwhelm us English speakers in Oz.

Cheers
Chris

 

[brian]

LET'S EAT GRANDMA
LET'S EAT,GRANDMA
Who says that punctuation isn't important?
Brian

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

It's more a generational thing Steve rather than anything else. I agree that to an extent the term University has been devalued but as far as most courses in the University of Glasgow are concerned grammar is still of paramount importance. My daughter who graduated with MA Joint Hons this summer regularly got dragged over the coals for grammatical mistakes. No bad thing, by her graduation the quality of her written work was unrecognisable by comparison to that of her first year.
I showed her the quote you posted and she just couldn't see the problem. She pointed out that the structure of sentences on social media is not reliant on punctuation but is more to do with the reader being tuned into the language and perhaps having a background knowledge of the subject being discussed.
What she pointed out was that this has to be treated as a face to face conversation that does not involve face to face interaction. She reckons that reading this she can sense the facial expressions of the author and that's what gives 'colour' and context to the words.
I feel very old

Well Del did you just make that up.

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

On occasions while holidaying abroad I have been satted next to supply teachers who couldn't see anything wrong with this sentence .
Listen to some of the grammar from news readers these days ; its abysmal .
We are now getting to the stage where writing is being replaced by electronic means, and as for basic arithmetic which is now being called maths
You used to have to be able to count damn rapid before you could work in a bar and if you were a barman tending waitress you had to be even quicker again or you would be robbed blind .

 

[DEL]

Well Del did you just make that up.

No, I discuss things, listen and read

Well Del did you just make that up.

No ...... none of it.

 

[MCPWilk]

"Me and my friend are stood/sat" - yet another example of the sort of bad grammer that has become normal amongst even the educated. My parents were brought up in working class families and schooled in the Depression, yet their use of English was excellent, even for Aussies (!).

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

"Me and my friend are stood/sat" - yet another example of the sort of bad grammer that has become normal amongst even the educated. My parents were brought up in working class families and schooled in the Depression, yet their use of English was excellent, even for Aussies (!).

Thats the ones that get right up my nose, we were sat over there and we were stood over there

 

[billyturnip]

Thats the ones that get right up my nose, we were sat over there and we were stood over there

That is or that's please.

 

[valiant]

"those are".... Plural.... Sorry, that's the teacher in me!!

 

[billyturnip]

My mistake it should be those`s.

 

[valiant]