Ellie's Miniatures Euro Release from Carl Reid

[ellie]

HI Valiant if you look at the back you will see a lot more

cheers

Ian
www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[jai]

From the picture I do not understand some of the details.

How have the straps.

The flag inscribed with the crown can not be 1859


and hat is tilted to the right side

 

[ellie]

Hi Jai
the straps don't know what you mean about straps? the hat could have been moved by the position of the arm moving it. and the flag was taken from info given to us but if wrong we will look at it. hope that helps you.

Cheers

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[ellie]

Jai a couple of photos of the flag that it was based on and they are in the time frame. but will stand corrected if we are wrong.

Cheers

ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[Trex]

Buon giorno Giorgio (jai).
According to the Italian Ministry of Defense, the flag with the Savoy shield and crown was indeed adopted as state and war flag of the Kingdom of Italy in 1860.

But, the same flag preexisted and was used by the Kingdom of Sardinia since 1848 (see bottom of this link).
The picture below might clarify any confusion.

The Kingdom of Sardinia was the one that fought the Second Italian War of Independence in 1859.
Therefore, the flag sculpted on this bust is correct.

 

[jai]

The body of sharpshooters wore a different uniform than the rest of the army of Savoy.

From the picture I posted I can not figure out if everything is correct.

For the flag is positioned some drawings
Source: Army Staff

A: infantry flag since 1848
B: Arrow mod.1832
C: mod arrow 1849-1861
Q: Flag mod 1860
E: hack Arrow 1860



But not too many problems ... good Italian model makers were wrong uniform of the pre unit

I hope my translation is correct

[Attach = completa] 253542 [/ attach] [attach = completa] 253.543 [/ attach] [attach = completa] 253.544 [/ attach] [attach = completa] 253545 [/ attach] [attach = completa] 253.546 [/ attach]

 

[ellie]

jai Would have been nice in English as this is talking about our product. but thank you T Rex we did the research before hand as we do with everything and we were right to do it that way. thank you for the info it was kind of you to post.

Jai thank you for the drawings of the falg but as said it would have been better in english

thank you guys

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[jai]

jai Would have been nice in English as this is talking about our product. but thank you T Rex we did the research before hand as we do with everything and we were right to do it that way. thank you for the info it was kind of you to post.

Jai thank you for the drawings of the falg but as said it would have been better in english

thank you guys

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

Sorry ... I've written in English ....
I made a copy and paste wrong

 

[ellie]

Hi Jai thank you for the translation I understand it better now cheers

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[jai]

Buon giorno Giorgio (jai).
According to the Italian Ministry of Defense, the flag with the Savoy shield and crown was indeed adopted as state and war flag of the Kingdom of Italy in 1860.

(..omissis..)

But, the same flag preexisted and was used by the Kingdom of Sardinia since 1848 (see bottom of this link).
The picture below might clarify any confusion.



The Kingdom of Sardinia was the one that fought the Second Italian War of Independence in 1859.
Therefore, the flag sculpted on this bust is correct.

It seems to me that before 1860 only the Navy had the crown on the flag ...

To complicate things I remind you that many of infantry were equipped with flags with the colors horizontally, not upright and some with the shield of savoy house that touched the edges of the red and green colors and others with much smaller shield .. ..

Interesting links posted .... but read the Kingdom of Italy in 1848 hurts.

The Kingdom of Italy is proclaimed in 1861 ... the complete unification of Italy you will have at the end of World War I

 

[ellie]

Hi Seems to me their is all sorts of different info on the flag but have to say we are going with the info we have
cheers.

ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[Trex]

It seems to me that before 1860 only the Navy had the crown on the flag ...

To complicate things I remind you that many of infantry were equipped with flags with the colors horizontally, not upright and some with the shield of savoy house that touched the edges of the red and green colors and others with much smaller shield

I'd be happy to accept all of this information if reference is provided.

Interesting links posted .... but read the Kingdom of Italy in 1848 hurts.

The Kingdom of Italy is proclaimed in 1861 ... the complete unification of Italy you will have at the end of World War I

I never wrote there was a Kingdom of Italy in 1848, nor it's written anywhere in my links.
On the contrary, I say the flag is of the Kingdom of Sardinia and therefore valid for the 1859 wars.

 

[jai]

The title here


http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/it-king.html

 

[jai]

A: Flag for the 32 ° 33 ° 34 ° 35 ° 36 ° Infantry Regiment 1859..1864
The first flags were commissioned tailors saying to them with three colors without specifying the measures and the arrangement of colors
B: standard for 1849/61 cavalry
Source: Staff Army

 

[Trex]

The title here

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/it-king.html

Yes, the title of the link you posted is wrong, although this was not the link I posted.
I'm talking and giving reference about the Kingdom of Sardinia flag and you reply about the Kingdom of Italy flag.

 

[Trex]

A: Flag for the 32 ° 33 ° 34 ° 35 ° 36 ° Infantry Regiment 1859..1864
The first flags were commissioned tailors saying to them with three colors without specifying the measures and the arrangement of colors
B: standard for 1849/61 cavalry
Source: Staff Army
View attachment 253551

Most probably these wrong flags were soon replaced with the correct ones.

 

[jai]

@TREX

In the link (http://www.difesa.it/Area_Storica_HTML/UniformiTradizioni/1860NuovaBandiera/Pagine/default.aspx ) you posted says

Chased the Austrians from Milan, with the rampant insurgency in Lombardy-Venetia, the Count Casati, head of the Provisional Government of Milan, March 20, 1848, addressed to Charles Albert a heartfelt appeal requesting its armed intervention in support of those populations; The letter contained, inter alia, an explicit request that the troops entered in Lombardy "with tricolor flags adorned the simple cross of Savoy."

(omissis)

The delivery of these new flags took place about two months after the armistice, signed in August of 1848, the result of which will lead in battle units in 1849, then later in the Crimean War and in the Second War of Independence, in 1859.


Throughout this period the reference document is the contract with the upholsterer, the opportunity to give a final form to the matter itself at the end of 1859, when the Tuscan provisional government took the official models of the flags to be assigned to the troops in Turin being set up, since their fate was to be incorporated in the Italian army.

The Decree of 25 March 1860 sanctioned definitively the characteristics of military flags, to the bodies on foot and for the infantry regiments, establishing the size of the cloth, the position of the shield of Savoy now topped by a royal crown, and the length of ' auction, but especially he indicated by the arrow in the shank and the sacred part of the flag; In fact, on all four sides of the shank they had to engrave inscriptions were the regimental name, date of establishment and the feats of arms in which he had distinguished, the cloth instead, if you become too worn out was replaced.

 

[jai]

Yes, the title of the link you posted is wrong, although this was not the link I posted.
I'm talking and giving reference about the Kingdom of Sardinia flag and you reply about the Kingdom of Italy flag.

In fact, I did not write that you wrote the wrong date ... but I wrote that hurts read errors of this type ...

you gave the link, and I've read the various sections, generally do not I stop at the first page, but I read the first one and the one after.


I do not write in English and use automatic translators ... often make mistakes ... and read is not the same as talking face to face.

in reference to the discussion I say what I have read in other threads on many modeling forums by people who only study the Italian Risorgimento history and in particular, or seen in Italian museums.

The figure, indeed bust, is very nice ... but then again, some details I can not see them well and I think if it was dated 1860 and not in 1859 would be better

Sorry again for my english

 

[jai]

Most probably these wrong flags were soon replaced with the correct ones.

they were later merged and replaced all after 1860


you have to think to italy not as it is now ...

many small states that have joined or by plebiscite or by war

it is normal that the flags had small or large differences

We think of the American Civil War .... how many different flags were there?

 

[Trex]

@TREX

In the link (http://www.difesa.it/Area_Storica_HTML/UniformiTradizioni/1860NuovaBandiera/Pagine/default.aspx ) you posted says

Chased the Austrians from Milan, with the rampant insurgency in Lombardy-Venetia, the Count Casati, head of the Provisional Government of Milan, March 20, 1848, addressed to Charles Albert a heartfelt appeal requesting its armed intervention in support of those populations; The letter contained, inter alia, an explicit request that the troops entered in Lombardy "with tricolor flags adorned the simple cross of Savoy."

(omissis)

The delivery of these new flags took place about two months after the armistice, signed in August of 1848, the result of which will lead in battle units in 1849, then later in the Crimean War and in the Second War of Independence, in 1859.


Throughout this period the reference document is the contract with the upholsterer, the opportunity to give a final form to the matter itself at the end of 1859, when the Tuscan provisional government took the official models of the flags to be assigned to the troops in Turin being set up, since their fate was to be incorporated in the Italian army.

The Decree of 25 March 1860 sanctioned definitively the characteristics of military flags, to the bodies on foot and for the infantry regiments, establishing the size of the cloth, the position of the shield of Savoy now topped by a royal crown, and the length of ' auction, but especially he indicated by the arrow in the shank and the sacred part of the flag; In fact, on all four sides of the shank they had to engrave inscriptions were the regimental name, date of establishment and the feats of arms in which he had distinguished, the cloth instead, if you become too worn out was replaced.

jai, we agree on the above as it's written in the Ministry of Defense link I posted.
It says the crown above the shield was established in a 1860 order, but again, it talks about the Kingdom of Italy flag.
My other link that describes the Kingdom of Sardinia flag says:

1848 Flags

After 23 March 1848 the Kingdom of Sardinia adopted the Italian tricolor on which it added the Savoy shield with blue border. Later, on 15 April 1848, it adopted a naval ensign and war flag, which was the same flag but with crown above the shield. Those flags became the flags of the Kingdom of Italy.

I think it's clear that a 1859 Sardinian war flag would most probably have the crown above the Savoy shield as it's sculpted on the bust.