Euro-survey

[megroot]

Gino,
I think you have a point there. Yes, figure's are expensive and we are the elite of the modelling world.
But there has to be a manufacturer who is gonna charge us less for the figure's. If we all stopped with buying at the high prices are they gonna offer them for less money. I don't think. They stopped producing figures saying that the market is done.
So maybe Pegaso can lead this.

Marc

 

[abbo]

I dont believe its just the cost that puts people off euro militaire the show has lost some of its magic over the past few years as there is not the same
amount of traders as there have been in the past.theres no renactors anymore poste militaire no longer exists there was always something going on along the Leas in the past and im sorry but some of the traders that do attend are selling rubbish
Martin

 

[Chevalier de Malte]

Gino

When you add the sum true figurines are expensive, the figure, the base, the paint etc etc ... apart from prices getting higher annually as if they get an influx by EU economy : ) but I do not agree with you that the price distracts new comers ... have you ever talked to kids who are in WarHammer and see tha amount of bucks an army costs ... personally I see that the figurines section has lost a little bit of its magic ... on the other hand armour thanks to Dragon and other brands have started an new era of affordable, easy and acurate models with no need of extra photoetch, tracks etc ... going back on figurines the amount of companies and new products each month I think will add coat to an average modellers and also to shopowner budgets to keep eith the flow and the demand ... I think the market is a bit exagerated nowadays !

We are all mortals, many have a family to take care of ... so we have much more expenses to keep up with the demand of the hobby ... and above all less time to finish my pieces and strat to be a collector of soldiers in boxes more than a figure painter ...

By the way I liked your SS figure on Military Modelling and the groundwork came realy good! PROSIT!

Ivan Cocker

 

[tonydawe]

Hi guys

Just for a moment, consider the situation from the model manufacturers point of view.

Perhaps one in every four figures will make a profit and recover the costs of production; the rest will either just break even or will cost money to produce. So in effect, we have to subsidide the cost of producing the dud figures as well as the hit figures.

These people are running a business and the first rule of business is to make more money than it costs to produce your products. If we expect the best sculptors and the best box art and the best quality castings, then we must pay or they will go out of business.

The best way to avoid paying high prices is to sculpt your own figures. If you can't sculpt, you don't really have many options.

Now on to more serious matters; beer.

I know Belgian's fancy themselves as great brewers and drinkers of beer, but are you seriously suggesting an Australian should drink WARM BEER? It's against the law in Australia to drink warm beer. I could go to jail and lose all my modelling privileges!!!

Regards
Tony

 

[megroot]

Hi guys
Now on to more serious matters; beer.

I know Belgian's fancy themselves as great brewers and drinkers of beer, but are you seriously suggesting an Australian should drink WARM BEER? It's against the law in Australia to drink warm beer. I could go to jail and lose all my modelling privileges!!!

Regards
Tony

Tony,
You"r ended your live in jail when you are doing that with the best beers in the world.
I personally going look after you
Marc

 

[vergilius]

Ho! I have to respond to this. Belgian beer is served cold as it should be!!
You're confusing it with English 'beer'.
So, when are you moving to over here?

 

[tonydawe]

Vergilius

Great news - cold beer and model shows in Belgium. I'm selling the house and kids and moving to Belgium tomorrow!!

Regards
Tony

 

[Hardy]

Just like to add to this thread, Roy's BOS was not given to him by the chief judge, it was awarded to him after careful and inteligent debate amongst euro judges. The majority of whom were gold medal winners and seasoned judges. The majority decision was not just made by figure painters i might add, but sculptors and afv modellers. I am honoured to have been part of the bos decision, Euro Militaire at its best.

Hardy Tempest

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Chipping in here with my own thoughts. I think everyone has noticed the difference and change but its hard to put the finger on whats causing it?

I noticed the thin ranks on the displayed tables myself. I experienced not finding all the familiar faces I wanted to see. And was way under budget when it comes to shopping.

I think the reason are many but the main ones is, and others have already mentioned them.

Fewer traders, and its actually a little boring and dispointing to see some traders bring their Andrea, Pegaso etc stuff when the companys are present themselves and selling at a lower rate.

I cant seem to remember any Euro Millitaire release? Please fill me in here but I think there where very few of them this year.

In addtion is England very pricey when it comes to meals and lodging is another factor. Especially considering what you do get for your money when it comes to hotels? This also affects trade but not on the same level.

It also seems that the show has become more international the past ten years. Or at least Euronational. Many visitors have established big contact nets and travels also to other shows in different countries. On the other hand it is positive for the hobby in general.

Perhaps every year is too often? Every second year could perhaps make people come in larger numbers? If the show moved a little it could be more interesting and perhaps a larger place could bring more traders which in their turn brings more visitors and exhibitors?

Cheers

 

[Robin]

Hi All

I have read with interest this post and watched it develop, some things I agree with some I don't, how many of the people posting here actually made the trip to Folkestone this year, some did, some didn't. Folkestone is a great little town with lots of nice places to eat and as for Hotels then you get what you pay for, I had my whole family there, in a half decent hotel, it was clean and served a decent breakfast.

In Antwerp this year I stayed in a hotel which was to say the least not the most comfortable, this wasn't the fault of the AMSS guys or in fact the Belgian people, more that I had picked the wrong hotel if I wanted top class cuisine and a totally comfortable bed.

Things are expensive in Britain, I live here all the time and have to pay these prices all the time, in the end we all make the decision to spend our money as we wish no one was forced to buy kits, the entrance fee well yes that has to be paid and I do think its more than it should be, but is that enough to not go to a show.

Any trip to an international show, Expo, AMSS, a US show or Euro will have to be paid for, its a fact, these things don't come cheap. If we stop going as protest then because its ran by the accountants they will make the calculation and rather than try and save it they will stop it simple as that, and with the greatest of respect I think some of those posting here will be the first to complain that it is gone.

This show belongs to a Corporate outfit, it doesn't belong to us, in fact no shows belong to us we are lucky enough to have them to visit after they are put on by hard work and often a thankless task to those that do that hard work, what we need to do is offer support to people who do all these shows not just Euro and pitch in where we can to help, why should anyone make the effort if all their hard work is berated at every turn, it will become work that is not worth the effort and we will loose the show, be it Euro, AMSS or the Huddersfield northern Militaire. When you start to see these things as a right, that's the time they will disappear.

My take on things would be rather than sending a missive of complaint, send a letter of constructive thoughts and ideas this is more likely to get read and acted upon than a demand for the organisers to make sure the pound is weak, all hotels are 4 star and the entrance fee will be halved.

For the record I had a fantastic time this year at Euro and I am not the only one I think


Regards

Robin

 

[Blind Pew]

Great thread!

Every so often you get a superb thread. This is one.
Numbers were noticably down, true. But I reckon the quality of those there made up for it, it was great to see many mates there, and I regret not spending enough time with people.
It's got to be said though, that as Euro is not run by a club it can feel like a Trade Fair with a competition.
I understand quite a few traders turn up merely to have a precence within the hobby as opposed to anything else.
The entrance fee is staggering. I had the opportunity to speak to a non-believer outside. He told me he was curious to see what was going on etc, especially after I told him. A tenner on the door put him right off. I don't blame him. How many other potential modellers have also been put off? A shame.
I don't really know how to fix it but I hope it's not a downward trend.

 

[slaj]

Gentleman, alot has been said about the show. I do agree with some points, especially when you're talking about the expences issue. I also don't agree with some other points. I will not add anything else because I think that most if not all has been said. HOWEVER..... there is one point I have to point out. It has ben rightly clarified by Hardy on an earlier post. The BOS was decided by MOST of the judges and not by the chief judge. And these were not just figure sculptors/painters but also AFV people who took part in a very efficient way. Those judges that weren't there was because their work was in final contention. It took us nearly two and a half hours just to decide the best in show and no pressure was applied by anybody in particular. I KNOW BECAUSE I WAS THERE !!!!

Stephen Mallia

 

[vergilius]

Well I'm actually glad my information seems to be wrong

 

[tonydawe]

As a distant observer of Euro Militaire, and as someone who has carefully considered all the comments made on this very enjoyable and thought-provoking thread, I think one obvious point needs to be made (or re-made).

EuroMilitaire is not run by modellers for modellers. It is a commercial business designed to make money for the organisers.

If the organisers fail to address the problems with EuroMilitaire, their business will suffer. If modellers stop attending EuroMilitaire, their business will suffer. If traders decide its too expensive to attend, their business will suffer. If the event becomes too expensive, modellers and traders will attend other shows, and ....their business will suffer.

As someone who runs my own business, I know how sensitive you need to be to your customers needs and I'm sure the people who run EuroMilitaire are equally concerned about the declining numbers and the complaints about the rising costs (and even the poor mattresses in Folkestone Hotels).

If they aren't senstive to these comments and aren't prepared to address them, then they don't deserve to be running this magnificant event, and someone else should takeover.

Ultimately, EuroMilitaire only exists because modellers agree to continue supporting it. I sense from the comments made on this thread that most Planeteers want to see Euro Militaire stay and survive into the future, but feel the event itself has lost some of its pretige and its charm, and is facing increasing pressure from European shows, the internet and international exchange rates.

I hope the organisers of EuroMilitaire are capable of taking all these issues on board and developing a business strategy to revitalise the event, attract new crowds to the event and encourage traders and manufacturers to come back.

If they don't, Euro Militiare will lose money and it will no longer be profitable to run it as a business. I hope this doesn't happen.

Cheers
Tony

 

[brian]

Hi Robin
I certainly won't be sending the powers that run Euro a missive of complaint as this would 't serve any purpose.A constructive message with them ,will be the way i will approach them.
Brian

 

[Robin]

I would agree with you Tony if Euro was the only thing that the company does, which tbh it isn't its a tiny amount of what they do and in fact its been inherited with the magazine, which again is a small part of what they bought.

I get the feeling that if they suddenly have to start addressing the mattresses in the local hotels and other things the small amount they make from the weekend will far be out weighed by the trouble it causes them and they will step away from it sharpish, we need and do have people there that do care about Euro but they can only do so much for the show. The powers that be do not care about the modeller they care about keeping the business going and quite right too which is what you and many other businesses are doing.

Many things said above are way beyond the control of the company and to think that they can influence them is naive, they can look at a lot of things but much of what's been said is not down to them.

I do know that already, the powers that be are looking at the weekend and seeing what they can do, but you have to remember that no matter what we say or do, they are business men first and in most cases NOT modellers, some are modellers and some champions of our hobby are there fighting for Euro, but as in ALL Business the bottom line will decide whether it changes or not.

And that the same for your business too, you don't run to break even do you, and we shouldn't ask them too, we all work or run businesses to make a profit and as much profit as we can, though we often forget this when its applied to others rather than ourselves.

Robin

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I think Tony sums it up quite well.

And Robin, even if matters(not mattresses ) are out of the organizers control, theyre never the less factors that does inflict on the numbers of visitors, traders and exhibitors at the show in question.

Also, running a show for profit and caring for modellers does not contradict each other. Or at least it doesnt have to. In the modelling community as a whole part there is usually very little room for changes and innovations. We are very conservative. I remember the debate on mainly Missing Links a few years ago for example.

Cheers

 

[Robin]

Janne

I couldn't agree more, but they are still out of there control and I wonder if they are just as infuriating for them as for us, to expect them to change them is in my opinion a bit misguided, do you not think.

Again true that you can run a show for profit and it be a great show, to be honest changing things at Euro will be a mammoth task and anyone taking it on needs to know that there is so much there ingrained as it were that it will take something monumental to change it. It would be easier if everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet, modelling, unfortunately that's not the case, some and tbh the most important people are singing from the profit hymn sheet so getting them to change you will have to offer another type of profit which is a most difficult thing to do.



Robin

 

[Uruk-Hai]

What would happen if they moved the show and had it every second year?

Wouldnt people and vendors save up for it?

Perhaps we should list what would make people and traders to come to the show?

Cheers

 

[Luis R.]

When Euro started, ages ago (I did attend the first edition) it was the only big show around. The only alternatives to Euro were local shop or club contests. Nowadays, there are at least 5-6 big and lots of minor shows in continental Europe. So, why travel to Folkestone if you can see most of the entries and meet most of the people after a few hours drive from home? (that is, obviously, if you live in Europe).

IMHO, there's another factor. 'Modern' figure modelling was born in Britain and main manufacturers (Poste Militaire, Chota Sahib, etc) and lots of minor ones were British. Today, the gravity center of the hobby has shifted to continental Europe. Main manufacturers -and, again, lots of minor ones - come from Spain, Italy, France, etc. You are more likely to find that obscure figure/book/whatever you're looking for on a vendor's table in Saint Vincent/Torrent/Kulmbach, etc. than in Folkestone.
My two cents