Eyes(catchlight And Direction)

[Wayneb]

Hello guys,
Done several pieces in the last year and a half(Busts)....Will post when I get the hair on my arse.........
My question is regarding the catch light on the eyes.I know they are to represent reflection of light but does that determine direction of the eyes,or the light source.
IE:..If I have the eyes looking left,and if I put the catch light on the figures right,will will that draw the viewer away from the fact that he is looking left.Or should the catch light be on the same side that he is looking.Hope this makes sense,but I've been pondering this for quite awhile............Any help much appreciated...................Wayne

 

[housecarl]

Just use gloss varnish, then they'll get a natural catch light.
Carl.

 

[Helm]

I'm with Carl use varnish

Plus I can't paint 'em

Steve

 

[megroot]

Paint no catchlight.....it always look like cataract.
Just a nice layer of gloss varnish.

Marc

 

[RFL]

Agree with Marc, at that scale just some gloss varnish looks better

 

[Mark S]

I think not painting a catchlight is like saying don't paint any shadows or highlights on the face just let the natural light determine how it looks.
If we are going to paint a figure showing all the other effects of light e.g. shadows, highlights and catchlights on metals etc. then a catchlight on the peepers is simply one more of those effects.
The catchlight should be positioned according to how all other light effects have been painted.
Here I've included a few pics of myself to demonstrate a few different catchlight effects~

1)


A good default postion for the catchlight is at 2 o'clock on the iris, but as you can see on No.2 pic with me looking to the left it's a 10 o'clock. But it all depends on where the light source is.
In No.4 I'm looking up at an overhead light and the catchlight is large and across the top off the iris.
Also note in pic No 2 that the catchlight extends from the iris onto the white of my eye!!.....cheers.

 

[Wayneb]

Thanks George.................

 

[sd0324]

I think that they add some life to things....just not a fan of gloss on there anymore...used to do that.

 

[Mark S]

Paint no catchlight.....it always look like cataract.
Just a nice layer of gloss varnish.

Marc

Marc, I'm sure badly painted catchlights could look like cataracts, but I don't think these look like cataracts.
This is from the SBS that Lee Sang Eon generously posted today.

 

[Einion]

My longstanding advice is also not to paint catchlights, prefer a gloss finish to your eyeballs.

The catchlight should be positioned according to how all other light effects have been painted.

It's one thing to say this but how often is this done? The painted example you use later fails this litmus test as the lighting for the entire bust should also come from upper left, but in actuality everything else is painted in the usual generic topside light most of us use, as you can see in the finished bust.

Einion

 

[Wings5797]

I totally agree with Mark S,
Paint the figure the way that you want it to look, with the light coming from the direction you choose. If you don't but do highlight and shadow the rest of the piece and varnish the eye you will get contrasting light directions.
Others here far better than I will say the converse but coming from a brush and canvas background I prefer to paint the eyes to match the rest of the paint work not take a chance on where the light is coming from at any given time.
Cheers,
Keith

 

[Wings5797]

My longstanding advice is also not to paint catchlights, prefer a gloss finish to your eyeballs.


It's one thing to say this but how often is this done? The painted example you use later fails this litmus test as the lighting for the entire bust should also come from upper left, but in actuality everything else is painted in the usual generic topside light most of us use, as you can see in the finished bust.

Einion

It's all part of the learning/development process. I have never seen your work but the good advice that you post here leads me to think that you would be more than able to paint this correctly and not leave the eyeballs to chance lighting Enion.
Cheers,
Keith

 

[megroot]

My reason for not painting catchlight is that when you look from another side to the figure (another angle then the catchlight is painted for) they always look weard.
If you paint a glossy varnish the light always fall into the right place.
Maybe I'm along on this I don't know.
Even if I could paint a catchlight like Sang Eon Lee, I wouldn't do it. Turn that bust 10 degrees to the right and the catchlight is fault. The lightsource stays on the same point, and the catchlight should be then 10 degrees more to the pupil. If you paint the catchligt it will never change in the right way. With varnish you don't have the wrong angle of the light no matter in what way you look at the figure.
I hope with my bad English I clearified my statement.

Marc

 

[kansas kid]

I won't venture an opinion on this point, but I will take the
opportunity to say I think this is a very good question. For
me, another quality example of how valuable this Planeteer
Web site is. Wow. . . . Good going, Gordy!
The Miami Jayhawk

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Marc,
Your English is fine, far better than my Dutch.
I take your point and understand why you use this method. My point is that the same applies for the highlights and shadows on the rest of the figure. That is to say, the light reflecting from the eyes will be in different position from the painted light areas on the rest of the figure when varnish is used. On your 10 degree example the reflected light from the varnish will be 10 degrees out. The painted catchlight will acctually be the same angle as the highlights on the rest of the figure.
Een goede gezondheid mijn vriend en goed schilderij
Keith

 

[megroot]

Thanks Keith.....voor jou ook een goede gezondheid en veel goed schilderwerk.
I think if you go for the catchlight you must paint the whole figure in light and shade's from the same direction of the light..
That whil be a very very hard task to follow that for the whole figure.
I remember the pirate with the candlelight from Danillo Cartacci. That whas a very hard paintjob. Wonder how many people can follow that.
In my point of vieuw that is the only way to go for a catchlight.
With the varnished eyes the catchlight will always come from the direction you look at the figure.
I don't know if you have a bust with a painted catchlight. Take it and look from a side to the figure where you can see the catchlight. I think you should say: It don't look so good as I look from the front.

On the other hand: I think this will be a never ending disussion. There are pro and contra's for painting catchlight. Well, i'm with the contra's, till somebody can show me how to paint a catchlight that looks real from every point of vieuw to the figure.

Marc

 

[Wings5797]

Hi Marc,
Thank you for your best wishes......your Duch is far better than mine.
Not that I want to change your method here but this is an example of my effort from 2 opposite angles. See what you think.
All the very best wishes
Keith

 

[DEL]

Wayne.....catchlight, go with what feels right on a figure to figure basis. It really depends on the look you're going for, it also depends on how the sculptor has sculpted the eyes. The eyes are the first area I paint, this brings the character of the piece out and makes the rest of the face easier to bring togetherI always start out with the intention to try for a catchlight but very quickly decide whether to use one or not.
If I do I never use white, usually use a very pale grey with a hint of the iris colour and I always use varnish sometimes gloss, sometimes satin.
Cheers
Derek

 

[Piotrec]

I think not painting a catchlight is like saying don't paint any shadows or highlights on the face just let the natural light determine how it looks.
If we are going to paint a figure showing all the other effects of light e.g. shadows, highlights and catchlights on metals etc. then a catchlight on the peepers is simply one more of those effects.
The catchlight should be positioned according to how all other light effects have been painted.
Here I've included a few pics of myself to demonstrate a few different catchlight effects~

1)
View attachment 115022 View attachment 115023 View attachment 115024 View attachment 115025 View attachment 115026

A good default postion for the catchlight is at 2 o'clock on the iris, but as you can see on No.2 pic with me looking to the left it's a 10 o'clock. But it all depends on where the light source is.
In No.4 I'm looking up at an overhead light and the catchlight is large and across the top off the iris.
Also note in pic No 2 that the catchlight extends from the iris onto the white of my eye!!.....cheers.

Mark in my humble opinion you are very handsome man. Have you tried a career in show business?


Regarding the initial question. I think it all comes to the matter if you varnish eyes at all. If you so, you do not paint catchlight. It could look weird. If you do not varnish eyes you definitely need to paint it. For me it is simple like this.

 

[megroot]

Hi Marc,
Thank you for your best wishes......your Duch is far better than mine.

Not that I want to change your method here but this is an example of my effort from 2 opposite angles. See what you think.
Keith

Well, If I see this I should rest my case. This is superbe painted. Can you take a picture from the left side of the figure. I think the catchlight is then fault.
But this is perfecty paint.

Marc