Filling fine seam in metal

[Banshee1000]

Hi Everyone.

I'm almost done with the Andrea Miniature's 54mm Tinkle Bell, but I'm having a problem with correcting a hairline seam at both wrists.

This is a white metal figure of a fairy trying to lift a large key while she's in flight. Her body is above the key and supported solely by an attachment at the two wrists (the hands are molded molded to the key). I reinforced this area with a jumbo paperclip straightened into holes drilled into the arms and hands, and attached with epoxy putty. The figure is painted with Tamiya Fine White Primer and airbrused MM enamels.

I'm minutes away from the final painting when I bumped the figure with a folding lamp. It chipped the paint on the legs (arrgh) and made a hairline seam at both wrists. I've sinced fixed the leg, but I can't get rid of these two hairline seams--literally hairline seams. I've used epoxy putty very carefully on the outside, used superglue, used bondo, used Mr. Surfacer. Everytime the seam shows again once primed. I can only think that I must have damaged the internal bond, but the figure doesn't behave this way. The bond is very good.

Please help! I can't keep sanding the delicate wrists. I've put so much work into this figure and I'm very happy with it, and can't leave it with the hairline seam (it is literally hairline). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Alan

 

[gordy]

That's a tough one, I would take one of two options:

Easy Method: Brush over the crack with thick paint (tube oils or acrylics) with the hope it will fill in.

OR

Hard Way: Open the crack a little (make it bigger) and seal it more with a putty.

Hopefully someone else has some alternatives

Let us know how it goes!

 

[Michaelminiatures]

Use your sculpting putty to fill the seams, thin the 2- part putty to a very thin paste and use a small brush to brush it into the seams . Let it set for a few for a bit and use a clean but damp bush to smooth it out and clean up any extra. I just did a metal figure and this works well.
Mike

 

[housecarl]

Thicken the paint with talcum powder and brush that in.
Carl.

 

[Banshee1000]

Use your sculpting putty to fill the seams, thin the 2- part putty to a very thin paste and use a small brush to brush it into the seams . Let it set for a few for a bit and use a clean but damp bush to smooth it out and clean up any extra. I just did a metal figure and this works well.
Mike

Thank you, Michael. What do you use to thin the epoxy?

 

[Banshee1000]

I hope these pictures help show my problem. The first shows the full image before the damage, how the figure's weight rests on her wrists. The second picture shows the sanded wrists. They feel smooth, and running to toothpick point over them doesn't even feel a ridge. The third shows a thin coat of primer on it tonight. You can see the crack on the wrists.

I appreciate all the kind responses.

 

[Michaelminiatures]

Water, for the 2 different kind I use Milliput or Magic sculpt

 

[Einion]

I was going to suggest using a slurry of epoxy putty but it sounded like you'd already covered a bunch of things that would do much the same job as well if not better.

From the pics, it looks like you have already sanded too much and really the lower forearms/wrists (and hands) could do with being built back up anyway, this could neatly solve your dilemma since you'd be covering the problem area.

Einion

 

[Banshee1000]

I was going to suggest using a slurry of epoxy putty but it sounded like you'd already covered a bunch of things that would do much the same job as well if not better.

From the pics, it looks like you have already sanded too much and really the lower forearms/wrists (and hands) could do with being built back up anyway, this could neatly solve your dilemma since you'd be covering the problem area.

Einion

Thank you, Enion.

Last night I made a slurry of Apoxie Sculpt and I had built up the surrounding area as you described. I was hoping to give it reinforcement--I don't want the crack to surface again in the future after all the painting is done. This morning the Apoxie was set but seems to let itself smooth nicely with 1000 wet sandpaper. I could only try it for a few moments before leaving (work keeps getting in the way of my hobby!) and I'll finish it tonight.

Milliput has never worked well for me, and I hope the Apoxie Sculpt does the trick. It mixed it carefully, but I understood it was supposed to be "rock hard" after three hours. This morning, after eight hours, it was hard, but it could be rather easily wet sanded. Is this normal?

I really appreciate everyone's help with this.

 

[Einion]

Milliput has never worked well for me, and I hope the Apoxie Sculpt does the trick. It mixed it carefully, but I understood it was supposed to be "rock hard" after three hours. This morning, after eight hours, it was hard, but it could be rather easily wet sanded. Is this normal?

Settings times vary greatly from person to person with epoxy putties. At room temperature I would not expect Apoxie Sculpt to be hard at three hours - I'm usually still doing the last shaping of it at that point, and a little beyond. But it definitely sets faster for other people.

When you can't sculpt with it any more that's just the initial hardening, the curing time - after which it is as hard as it can be - is longer. Curing takes at least double the working period, but it can be as long as 24-48 hours from the time of mixing (24 hours according to Aves themselves).

Einion

 

[Banshee1000]

Settings times vary greatly from person to person with epoxy putties. At room temperature I would not expect Apoxie Sculpt to be hard at three hours - I'm usually still doing the last shaping of it at that point, and a little beyond. But it definitely sets faster for other people.

When you can't sculpt with it any more that's just the initial hardening, the curing time - after which it is as hard as it can be - is longer. Curing takes at least double the working period, but it can be as long as 24-48 hours from the time of mixing (24 hours according to Aves themselves).

Einion

Einion, your posts (and everyones) have been extremely helpful to me. Thank you.

Should I wait 24-48 hours before painting Tamiya Primer and MM Enamel over the putty?

Alan

 

[Meehan34]

Are you sure that is a crack and not the putty showing through your white primer? Have you tried base coating with your flesh tone again to see if it dissapears? Everything you have done should have fixed the problem. The epoxy putty will continue to cure even if painted over, I do it all the time even if it goes against the teachings of the old schoolers.

 

[Einion]

Welcome Alan, glad to try to help. We've all had problem joins like this once or twice I'm sure!

The epoxy putty will continue to cure even if painted over, I do it all the time even if it goes against the teachings of the old schoolers.

QFT

In a rush I've primed or painted over epoxy putties that have only just hardened numerous times with no problems, although I confess it still makes me feel like I've broken a commandment or something LOL

Einion

 

[Banshee1000]

The two-part epoxy and careful sanding did the trick. I just didn't realize it took far longer than three hours to cure (more like 18 hours!) before it strenghtened. Now it's reinforced very nicely and the hairline seam is gone.

I am very grateful for all the help everyone gave me. I'm glad I found this forum Thanks again.

 

[Banshee1000]

Are you sure that is a crack and not the putty showing through your white primer? Have you tried base coating with your flesh tone again to see if it dissapears? Everything you have done should have fixed the problem. The epoxy putty will continue to cure even if painted over, I do it all the time even if it goes against the teachings of the old schoolers.

Hello Mike.

I finished the primer earlier this evening, let it dry several hours. Everything was perfect. Looked at it under the light and there was a seam on each wrist. But I took your advice, airbrused the flesh tones, and they were gone. Yea!

I think I had a couple of problems. I did have the original seams that broke when I hit the figure with the lamp, and my original fixes didn't work because the seams showed after priming, putty or super glue and then flesh. After the two-part epoxy and primer it looked fine until I examined it without contacts (I'm very nearsighted--helpful with painting eyes) under the bright light, and it was the difference between the two surface materials showing a line through the finely applied white primer. Painting over it with the dark enamels eliminated that. My final problem was being so obsessed with this and trying to find the seams that were no longer there.

Whew.

Thanks for your thought that proved so valuable. And thanks again to everyone that helped me with this. Now I can move on, being very careful not to bump it again (!) and finish the key and strings. Whew.

 

[Mariner]

Hi Alan
This was a really interesting thread, you've done a wonderful job so far. If this happened to me, I'd have had a coronary. The help you get on PF is like having the guys around your bench til the problem is resolved
Looking fwd to seeing this finished,
cheers, Mary

 

[Banshee1000]

Hi Alan
This was a really interesting thread, you've done a wonderful job so far. If this happened to me, I'd have had a coronary. The help you get on PF is like having the guys around your bench til the problem is resolved
Looking fwd to seeing this finished,
cheers, Mary

Thank you for your post. She was a difficult figure for that seam/break because it's a rather heavy figure, being metal, and you can see that the full weight rests on the wrists, putting even geater stress on them if she's angled any way for painting. But the pose is part of the attraction to me selecting this figure. My further difficulty was that she's airbrushed, so every time it didn't correct I had to start the process over. This is a quick, poor quality picture of her at the moment. I just finished the key base for the brass/patima finish.

I didn't even work on it for several days. It tipped over while doing some touch-up last weekend, leading to more touch-up (she'll go onto a sturdy base as soon as I get to that point) and it seemed that I couldn't even look at it without creating a new problem. I wouldn't be surprised to find it playing in traffic.

Thank you again for your interest. This is a great community and I'm learning a lot.