First attempt at sculpting a bust

[Gaudin]

My observation is that it is quite difficult to get any constructive feedback that helps people grow unless you actually go and ask specific people privately. That is based on several works I posted and patterns I am observing on PF.
Some are still not able to grasp that there is a difference between negative criticism and constructive feedback - both are beeing lumped together and people spring to defend against imaginary attacks, a group of paladins who think its their duty to defend damsel in distress - when there isnt a problem.

There are pages and pages of adoration (good!- and it is essential) and comments along the line " I am not a sculptor and it looks fine to me" or " show us how to do better" challenges rather than actuall practical help for people to grow. It saddens me and it is what it is, I guess.

I know I am not alone in thinking this and some people who share this view now stood back and not giving any feedback anymore. Which is a shame...

I thought Brutal honesty section was created to allow people to get feedback they asked for, with remainder of the forum to be protective of people like Paul themilitarymodeller.

Well, it looks like it isnt so.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Gaudin - I think you certanly have a point and I for one have asked for good and bad comment. When one works on a piece too long one gets too close to it and can no longer see faults....or worse one sees nothing but faults. Then one is reduced to tricks like looking at the piece in a mirror or hiding it for a week so one can see it through "new" eyes. I agree that PF is overwhelmingly positive.

I try to be very very gentle when offering criticism and will generally only do so when critique is asked for....the vast majority of work is posted as WIP or finshed without the critique option. I often find I have typed a "great but...." comment and then seen that critique was not requested, so I erase it.

Perhaps we could all undertake to comment more meaningfully on the critique and brutal strings for a start. And perhaps members should undertake to be more careful about which option they choose when posting.

One difficulty is that if only one or two members start offering critiques, they risk being seeen by the rest of the herd as know alls, negative nellies, or modellers wtih god complexes.

The other place I often hold back is with new releases as I don't want to damage a small business' economic prospects. But I have seen that members are a lot less reticent about posting critque for new releases than their peers.

Colin

 

[Wayneb]

Hello John,
Thanks for posting your work,....I think you did a fine job on your first sculpting piece.I never considered myself very good at drawing,even though I've done some life drawing.But I have done quite a bit of life sculpting on a larger scale.
I used to have my wife take pics of me with a certain look or to pick up the folds and flow of the clothing and also to get the feel of the personality and just what needs to happen as far as the overall look goes.That along with the research for accuracy and detail.
I could never sculpt looking at one plane (drawing or picture). My process was mental visualization from all angles and I always visualualized myself in each situation and try not to make them all look like me(bad thing).
With all that said;I am surely not a Guru on the subject....Just trying to get better with painting.
Thanks for posting.........I believe you've opened a door for alot of members.
Keep up the good work and hope to see more......Best regards.....Wayne

 

[Don Johnson]

John, I don't have any hard data, but I do think there's a correlation between the size/quality/quantity of posted images, and the quantity and or usefullness of resulting comments. Speaking only for myself, and notwithstanding your request for feedback, the pics were just too small for me to form anything but the most general of observations. Hence, I made no comment until now, based on lack of data.
I love the drawing, based on what I can see.
I think the face is more haggard than the drawing (no foul here, just an observation).
I know much less about WW1 than some other periods, so I can't be specific with regards to the equipment, but it "looked" ok, again based on the images provided.
John, I'd love to see better images - images that would display the quality of your work.

"I thought Brutal honesty section was created to allow people to get feedback they asked for, with remainder of the forum to be protective of people like Paul themilitarymodeller. Well, it looks like it isnt so."

Gaudin, I think your comment regarding meaningful feedback in this section has the taste of sour grapes (especially the last line). I agree with the generality of your basic points, but posting it here, on this thread, when the photos are too few and too small for commentary, let alone criticism, is a shot well wide of the mark.
Also, it must be acknowledged that it is summer in most of the northern hemisphere, and I'm guessing that overall pF traffic is down simply due to the fact that folks are on holiday, or have chosen other things to do. In three weeks, if John were to re-post with better images, I believe the responses would be much more in line with your vision of the mission this section should serve.

Best regards, Don

 

[John Ballard]

Colin (and everyone else btw)
Thanks for all the comments and interesting polemic. The helmet was just built up with MS and sanded with a final finish using a nail buffer from the local pharmacy. Being a round basic shape means that smoothing out is fairly easy.
John

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Thanks John.

Colin

 

[david pickford]

Ah John, good to see you leaping in here too 'where Angels fear to Tread' certainly couldn't have anticipated all that response sir!

 

[tonydawe]

My old Grandma used to say "If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

If I think someone has done a bad job of sculpting or painting a figure, I'd prefer to keep my opinions to myself rather than embarass them on a public forum.

On several ocassions when I have offered what I felt was an honest critique, I've been attacked by other Planeteers for expressing my opinions.

So now if someone asks for an opinion on their work, I'll be positive or I'll keep my opinions to myself.

If someone does post on the Brutal Honesty forum, and then gets their feelings hurt because they don't receive positive feedback, or if others feel that the feedback is unfair or unjust, then that defeats the purpose of the thread.

If someone genuinely wants my opinion, and wants me to be brutally honest with them, I will be, but only via a PM.

 

[Mark S]

Tony, my old Grandma used to say the very same thing actually, how about that.
But then in the same sentence half the time she'd usually go on to whinge about the mongrel next door, or her bloody crooked bookmaker and to tell me to get a bloody haircut and a real job.....but everyone around her had nothing to say at all.