Germanic-Roman Warrior, 1st Century A.D.- Pegaso Models new

[Filipe]

I need photographic evidence of a german warrior using that roman helmet.

 

[DEL]

I need photographic evidence of a german warrior using that roman helmet.

I wouldn't swear to it but I don't think they'd cameras back then ........ people need to relax a bit about Pegaso Barbarians.

 

[Johan Kees]

I always wonder why miniatures that deal with the (ancient) Roman era attract this kind of critical comments. Dozens of new figures from other time frames are announced here and applauded without any comment on their historical correctness. When it is a Roman related subject, however....

Johan

 

[Ulrich]

Something like that??

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I need photographic evidence of a german warrior using that roman helmet.

I

I demand photographic evidence that no german warrior ever used that roman helmet.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Filipe]

DEL, ok, i will give you that. But, at least, a reference on a famous, serious and well researched movie, like History of The World Part I, by the historian Mel Brooks.

 

[Karlosfandango]

Ask Doctor Who, he might know !
None of us will ever know, we weren't there!

 

[Martin Antonenko]

Arm cuffs - fictitious.
Bearskin cloak - fictitious, and cliché
Fur loincloth - fictitious, and cliché
Pants - Celtic, not Germanic
Chainmail - roman, not germanic
Helmet - a Roman legionary helmet was not worn by auxiliaries or "roman germans"
Axe: From the hardware store next door ...

... and so on.

Helmet and chainmail are correct to the 1st century. But thats all.

The figure is from the bottom to the waist a Celt and above a fantasy german with Roman legionary quipment parts, decorated with fictitious fur clothes

I just think it shows a lack of respect towards the customer, o call a figure like this "historic".

But who likes it, may buy it!

Sorry - my opinion.

Cheers

 

[Ernest]

what's the problem with this figure?, for me sculpt and paint are top, if you like it buy it, if don't like it don't buy it, is simple..

 

[Babelfish]

Arm cuffs - fictitious ............ Says who?

Bearskin cloak - fictitious, and cliché ......................... cliché perhaps, but also impossible to state categorically that no Germanic warriors 2000 years ago ever wore animalskin cloaks. Perfectly feasible IMHO.

Fur loincloth - fictitious, and cliché ........... see above

Pants - Celtic, not Germanic ............... Debatable. But ok - call him a Celt if it makes you feel better.

Chainmail - roman, not germanic ................... War booty

Helmet - a Roman legionary helmet was not worn by auxiliaries or "roman germans" ........... War booty again

Axe: From the hardware store next door ............. You serious??!!

None of us will ever know, we weren't there!

Hits nail square on head (with large hammer from the hardware store next door).

I always wonder why miniatures that deal with the (ancient) Roman era attract this kind of critical comments. Dozens of new figures from other time frames are announced here and applauded without any comment on their historical correctness. When it is a Roman related subject, however....

Romans are the "Tiger tanks" of the figure-painting world. By which I mean that you wouldn't believe how anal some self-appointed "experts" get about Tiger tanks over on the armour forums. Far more so than about any other tanks (those who like me also model armour will know what I'm talking about).

- Steve

 

[Filipe]

believe how anal

 

[Blind Pew]

Time & energy spent on these debates is usually time and energy better spent with brush in your hand.
I'm off to paint......

 

[Karlosfandango]

Yes and come the end of the war Tiger tanks were a mixture of early, mid and late due to lack if resources and field/ custom repairs. Don't get me going at that.
Back to the real life, oh and some painting for FUN!

 

[DEL]

DEL, ok, i will give you that. But, at least, a reference on a famous, serious and well researched movie, like History of The World Part I, by the historian Mel Brooks.

 

[Tonton]

I'm pretty sure this figure could represent a 'German' of this period. So what if he wears Celtic trousers (braccae)? There were certainly Belgic (Celtic) tribes in north-west Europe at the time – the Nervii and Treveri – who called themselves Germanic to differentiate themselves from the Gauls who they considered lazy. Chain mail, incidentally, was a Celtic invention later adopted by other peoples. As for the fur(s) the Roman army's own signifer rank wore them. Might not the figure represented here have either worn a fur of his own, or one taken from a Roman as a trophy like the helmet? It's not my job to question Pegaso's research and I think that the arm cuffs are perfectly acceptable in the way that sweatbands are amongst contemporary troops. Overall, I think it's a waste of time to nitpick the clothing of the 'barbarian' peoples of this era; we just don't know exactly what they wore – there was no prescribed uniform.

 

[Babelfish]

Overall, I think it's a waste of time to nitpick the clothing of the 'barbarian' peoples of this era; we just don't know exactly what they wore – there was no prescribed uniform.

Well said Tonton. Rapturous applause!

- Steve

 

[Tonton]

Thanks, Steve.

Jeff

 

[Einion]

I need photographic evidence of a german warrior using that roman helmet.

To be fair there's an important principle to bear in mind, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

It is quite reasonable to assume that someone might use a piece of kit picked up from a fallen foe for example - we know for sure this happened in multiple eras in the past, from the early-mediaeval period up to the present day, so there's no reason to presume otherwise for earlier times.

It's named a Romano-Germanic, the helmet makes perfect sense to me given the supposed subject (although perhaps bronze would be more appropriate). It is not the helmet at all that bothered me.

I always wonder why miniatures that deal with the (ancient) Roman era attract this kind of critical comments. Dozens of new figures from other time frames are announced here and applauded without any comment on their historical correctness. When it is a Roman related subject, however....

Fair question in principle. Perhaps it's because it's often so obvious? That can be pretty grating. And there's the watershed thing - a certain weight of "Oh God, not another one" on top of that. That gets old, really fast.

If WWII-era stuff posted here had the same kind of anachronisms (not the same number, it wouldn't require that) we've seen with older subjects I can guarantee to you that there would be as much griping about those errors, if not more because it would be far more obvious and to a larger number of members. Can you seriously imagine the reaction to an SS figure armed with a wheel-lock, or wearing 19th-century boots? And how about both together?!

In reality it is not just Roman-era figures with anachronisms that get highlighted. You might not recall, in addition to clearly fantasy elements we've seen kit items that are centuries out for the stated date of the subject. Centuries. Would you be uncritical of a late-renaissance figure armed with a Brown Bess, with a 1911A1 holstered at his belt? Those are not exaggerated examples of the level of error on some ancient-era figures.

Einion

 

[Martin64]

Equipment worn by my father and many of his comrades according to his memories during winter 1941 on the Eastern front:
- German steel helmet whitewashed with toothpaste
- quilted jacket and trousers from fallen Siberian soldiers
- Russian Valenki boots
- Russian PPSH Machinegun and German K 98
- during service at the frontline he and most of his comrades grew fullbeards
Because they did not think of future self-declared experts on history nobody took a picture...
Some hundred years in the future I can foresee the comments on "Galaxyfigure 2500" if a figure based on this description is released to the market.
If we look at the ever-changing picture how Roman soldiers and their opponents were described and depicted throughout the centuries it is hard to take it serious if details on a figure are judged as "fictional" or "real" just because an "expert" is stating this.
My two cents - happy modelling!
Martin

 

[Tonton]

As an aside, my father was a PoW from Dunkirk until his captors fled from East Prussia and the Red Army in 1945. I know he and his fellow prisoners wore whatever they could get hold of which, in my dad's case, included a standard-issue Heer Wehrmacht belt! With disadvantaged people, like prisoners and 'barbarian' tribes it's always been the same.
Jeff

Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.