Germans not welcome at the World Expo in Girona ???

[Guy]

Below is the link to Lilliput forum. You will have to join to be able to post.

http://www.lilliputmodel.com/foro_discusion/index.php?

Below is the link to their home page ( tons of articles that can all be translated through Google or bablefish )
The also have the largest and best galleries I have seen on the internet.

http://www.lilliputmodel.com/

I usually copy / paste the URL into bablefish which will translate the whole page ( sometimes more than one page ) You can also copy / paste the registration page to join into bablefish and all the instructions are in english or German in your case.

Hope this helps.
Guy

 

[Markus]

Thanks for the URL !!!

Now the letter has been posted there, too.

Take care,
Markus

 

[Javi Mendez]

If the WE organization agrees to have a German judge, will it have to be from your Foundation, as the leading one representing most of the German community?

Because it looks like you are kind upset for not having been invited yourself (I mean, your club). You know, the leading club....

It seems to me that we would be reading pretty the same message if somebody from another German club had been picked up. How on Earth those Spaniards leave the leading German club out?

By the way, not that long ago took place the 'Soldat de Plom', one of the leading shows in Spain devoted only to figures, and organized pretty much for the same people that will organise the WE. Im 100% sure that you could have the chance of speaking to the WE organizers about any concern you could have. Did you, or any of your fellow club members, come around? I cannot beleive that the leading German club, representing most of German miniaturist and so on, didnt show up!!!!

Javi

 

[Ulzana]

Hi, men. To begin it is necessary to say that the German modellers are so respectable as those of any another nationality, but also it is true that they possess very little international recognition. If you asks any fan for names of Italians, Britishs, Frenchs, Americans, Spanish or Greeks modelers surely it was mentioning many. But unfortunately, there are few names of Germans modellers throughout the world known. On the other hand, since already other persons have mentioned, what would happen if the modellers of these other countries "forgotten" in the juror (Portuguese, Russians, Norwegians, Canadians, Venezuelans, etc, etc, etc) of the WE were deciding to protest in the same way as they have made it the Germans? Slightly enough pathetic, truth? Because of it, I would ask the members of this "foundation" who do not dedicate to discredit the work of an excelent organization in every sense and who think that probably they are they that tomorrow organizen a WE and that at the time they would not like to be found with this type of attitudes.

Regards
Ulzana

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I think its a bit of a two-way street.
Not so many Germans shows up at international shows and not so many non-Germans goes to Germany to visit a show?

Although the modelling community in Germany is large.

Also the western part of the modelling "civilazation" tends to forget eastern europe, not to mention other parts of the world.

Cheers

 

[Bruno]

Hello Javi and Ulzana,

Germany is the homeland of the historical figurine, I have never herad that in any other country there is a big Museum only for Figurines (Kulmbach). If you speake with Italian producers, Germany is on of the biggest market on figurines. With 82 Million Germany is the country with the biggest population in Europ.

In the last years Germans had been ín competition in France, Greek, Italy, Belgium and England. Even in some of ther Jury in the show.

If you want to hear well known German modellers names: Michael Volkwarts, Michael Seitz, Conny Schulte. I did a lot of articles on figurine painting in Germany, Italy, France and the USA.

I don't think we are totaly unknow otherwise Germans would have not been invited in the Jury of Washington, Toronto, Glasgow and at least at Boston, were I was invited in the Jury by Shep Pain.

We do NOT think that a German Juror had to come from our Foundation ( an official non provit organisation registred by the German State).

It would have been a geasture of fairness to invite at least one German.

The reason that Germans don't travel so much to shows is simply, because nearly all German painters ar hobby painters, who don't sell their figurines. For this reason German painters had to pay the money when they go to shows and not earning money by selling figurine.

We would love to come more often to American shows, but suche a trip is up to 1000,-- € and more... Who can afford to spend every year 4000,-- €
or more only to go to shows?

Again we had to choos this public way simply because the Spanish Organiser of the show never answerd any letter from us...
Sorry this is not the way of a proifessional and competent organisation of a World Expo

Best regards

Bruno

 

[jitch0t]

Maybe you should see all the responses in all the forums you have posted this public letter and think twice before continuing with your thoughts.

Oh, by the way, there is a Museum only for figurines in Jaca (Spain) too:

http://www.museominiaturasjaca.es/

 

[Samuel Pérez]

another museum in Valencia, Spain
http://www.museoliber.org/index.asp

and the news of this: http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/231585/0/museo/soldaditos/plomo/

This web says that the liber museum of Spain has the most big private collection of miniatures of the world.

 

[Diegoff]

I think it is a waste of time to answer a message with such a show of ignorance and arrogance.
Is like a childish game:" Mine is bigger than yours..."
"Homeland of historical figurine"????
"Never heard that in any other country..."
They forget the best german modellers -in my humble opinion- like Puchala or Müller-Herdemertens...
They have no doubt that the organization doesn´t answer their mails. Taking aside that is something bizarre to mail for to be a judge in a show, have received the organization that mail?
I know that people of the organization is going to shows in Germany since at least 8 years. The members of this foundation have had a lot of occasions to know them but it seems that they werent interested to met some spanish modellers.
A sad espectacle to see people making use of the name of their own country to hide their private interests a waving the flag to harm The WE08.
Fortunately, there is a lot of people in Germany- as in any other country of the world- that are perfectly reasonable and good people and they aren´t going to fell in this trap.
Back to figures!

 

[Ulzana]

Hello Javi and Ulzana,
Germany is the homeland of the historical figurine

Dear Bruno, this it is a too incisive and rash enough appraisal on which there would be much that to discuss, but better we leave it for another moment...

I have never herad that in any other country there is a big Museum only for Figurines (Kulmbach)

In this you are wrong and with it you demonstrate to be presumptuous enough and a little chauvinist. Since Daniel has said to you in the beautyful Aragonese city of Jaca (Spain) there is a magnificent museum dedicated to the miniature figures and me it is clear that in other cities of the world similar places exist. It is the bad thing that has it to believe himself that one is the "better of the world"

If you speake with Italian producers, Germany is on of the biggest market on figurines. With 82 Million Germany is the country with the biggest population in Europ.
In the last years Germans had been ín competition in France, Greek, Italy, Belgium and England. Even in some of ther Jury in the show.
If you want to hear well known German modellers names: Michael Volkwarts, Michael Seitz, Conny Schulte. I did a lot of articles on figurine painting in Germany, Italy, France and the USA.
I don't think we are totaly unknow otherwise Germans would have not been invited in the Jury of Washington, Toronto, Glasgow and at least at Boston, were I was invited in the Jury by Shep Pain

Everything is it very nice, Bruno, but it continues without justifying yours pretension to include at any expense a German modeller in the juror of the WE of Girona. If the organization has decided not to include any German will have been for something (and I do not believe that it should to reasons of discrimination) and what it is necessary to do in these cases it is to agree the decision respectfully, trying to solve the matter of a private form with the organization and never attacking publicly to whom is doing a great effort for was going a contest of these characteristics.

Again we had to choos this public way simply because the Spanish Organiser of the show never answerd any letter from us...

Forgive me but I put in doubt that it you have tried with the sufficient interest, since me it is clear that the organization of the WE of Girona is opened for the commentaries and suggestions of all the fans of the world. And tries it is that when it has true opportunely certain questions relative to the competition have been modified because of these commentaries and suggestions.

Sorry this is not the way of a proifessional and competent organisation of a World Expo

With this affirmation is you demonstrate to be someone very disrespectful and spiteful enough, Bruno ...: Is a shame the bad place in which yours Foundation is leaving the German modellers internationally. A bit more of humility and good ways, please

Regards
Ulzana

 

[Abraxas]

Dear Friends of Figures & all folks sharing this hobby,
Dear committee of World Expo & All Spanish modellers,

Hoi, I’ve been one of the ROM-users of this forum for a while because I switch from military modelling to figure painting. So, normally that should not be the way of first contact with you but I tried to keep my hands for while off – with no success. I did something similar to the Lilliput forum in Spain.

Please just let me explain some important points:

I'm German – I’ll try to avoid this fact in my English ...

I feel myself always welcome to Spain, the Spanish figure friends, and especially WorldExpo in Gerona.

Most of German figure painters & collectors I know have nothing to deal with any so called "Foundation" that keeps herself as "majority" of German figure painters.
We (me and some people known to me) try to spend our last money on figures, having some fun and enjoy the time on earth.
In fact, that’s only a registered Club to support the show at Ingolstadt „Herzog von Bayern“ („Count of Bavaria“). It’s a small but nice exhibition that exists from other international figure painters.
But they definitively speak NOT for any „majority“ of German figure painters.
All notified signers of that „Open Letter“ are members of their own forum in Germany, maybe that world isn’t enough. See, all out of one bed.
Bruno wrote there ( http://www.hz-forum.de/portal/include.php?path=forum/showthread.php&threadid=2870&entries=0) ) in the „Not welcome“-thread:
„Auch wenn es nun einige Personen gibt, die die Seite der spanischen Expoveranstalter einnehmen um dort auf gutes Wetter zu machen und sich eine Medaille zu sichern ...“ – roughly translated to „There might be now some people taking part to the position of the Spanish Expo committee carrying a bag of sunshine while hoping for a medal ...“
Is there anything to comment?

Well, in my eyes everyone who judges a competition might be able enough to act, wether he comes from Alaska or the boondocks of Bavaria.
Get out of the kitchen if you can‘t stand the heat. I’m not interested in any politics of a show. This is ONE of my hobbies, and there’s a life outside. Sometimes fresh air causes wonder ...

I’m able to speak for myself, so I need no "Foundation" to act as all Germans. The only society I command is a group of four odd people sitting in my car while visiting a show somewhere in Europe ... ;-)
Due to that facts I feel myself offended by the "Foundation".
This is the most worse case of politics I‘ve ever got to know in this hobby.
Their childish behaviour explains perhaps why they weren't invited as "judges".

There is a very old Tin Figure Collection (flat figures) at Ommen / The Netherlands, right behind the German border.

Keep on painting and please remember:
Those guys are not the "majority" of German figure painters - perhaps they wish it.
I don’t wanna hind my number plate next time visiting foreign shows.

So, please forgive me those words here as opening. If I’d harm any netiquette I’ll bag for pardon.

Cheers,

Guenther Puchstein
Foundation of beer lovers

 

[Manfred]

Well written Guenther and I have nothing more to add.

 

[Diegoff]

Hey, Guenther, my fellowmember of Foundation!;-)

Cheers!

 

[Roc]

I have great respect and admiration for Spain and Germany. It saddens me greatly to see the names of these great countries used so loosely.
I have never been a fan of awards and competitions. I believe figure painters should display there figures and, most importantly, have fun with out the pressures of competitions.
I believe that a show should be a vehicle to be used to forge international brotherhood and long lasting friendships.
We are all brothers in the hobby. Let's stop arguing and get back to what we love most, painting figures, and leave the politics to the real politicians who run our countries.

God bless you all and keep those paint brushes wet.
Roc

 

[Ulzana]

Excelent, Guenther. Like say in Spain: "it is possible to say higher, but clearer it is impossible" By the way, if you admit Spanish members in yours small but friendly "foundation", rely on me
We meet in the World Expo 2008 of Girona (I expect... )


Regards
Ulzana

 

[Ulrich]

Hi Roc

Nothing more to say and add. That is my opinion, too.

Ulrich

 

[Ulzana]

Wise words, Roc. I am absolutly in agreement with you.

Regards
Ulzana

 

[Ulzana]

Hi, folks. I would like to say that it might agree with the recoveries that expose these German modellers, but I am not as for the way of doing it. Because I want to ask to all those modellers and figure's fans of the world that thinking of being present at the World Expo of Girona that are not left to influence for Bruno and his Foundation's commentaries and they come to Spain in 2008 because it is a precious city, because the organization of the event is doing it really well and because they are going to amuse very much in a magnificent modelling environment

Regards
Ulzana

PD: To avoid mistrusts I clarify that I am only a Spanish modeller and that I do not belongs to the organization of the WE.

 

[Abraxas]

@ Roc:
Thanks for your words and your patience with me! But great countries depends on their great people ... ;-)

@ Rest of the Best:
Hope to meet you next time on other topics ... and in Gerona ... Guess, after 1.600 kms we will find a bodega.
I've just cleaned up the mess on working bench, and now the TGIF BBQ will be fired up. So, a small group of modellers here in my garden, all associated with the "Foundation of beer lovers", will have some Cheers on you tonight.

Stay in shape!

 

[Ernest]

I just wish to go to WE and drink some beers with Germans, Italians, Spanish, French, English........ and everyone of the world, maybe I will have to sleep in the street because I dont' have enough money...