Going bust

[Andrew Perren]

Really interesting question posed and interesting responses from everyone so far.

If I can add my tuppence worth, I am a relative noob to figures ( as a long time aircraft modeller, figures were only ever an accessory not a "real" model !!! - OK put the pitchforks away guys).

But as with many modellers as time goes on you want to stretch yourself into different genres to maintain the interest - enter figures and busts as a new area of interest.

Relative to the question that Adrian posed - I was lucky not to have a pre-disposition towards either busts or full figures, but I can base my thoughts on my experiences after taking the plunge into the genre.

I think it all comes down to comfort, and that comes from your experience. My first full figure was 1/35 from Live Miniatures resin and was exquisite - Bam hooked. My first bust was from Nuts Planet - Bam hooked. But my initial forays into larger scale full figures have not been that positive so far ( from my own enjoyment anyway).

I agree with the posts about busts being larger scales needing more "character" in the faces and torso which kind of makes up for the lack of a body to help tell the story. Maybe that's what makes them more like artistic display pieces than "toy soldiers" to the uninformed casual observer.

The 5 new busts I have bought recently probably means that my wallet is having the last word on the subject!

 

[Ferris]

I have never done one. I have nothing against them, but I believe that the art in painting a great bust is in the face. My face painting ability is shit so I have avoided them.
With the full figure there is more to take the eye away from the poorer painted parts.

Having said all that I have two in my gray army and another two on order when they are available, In the hope that my face painting skills improve.

mick

Thanks for your input Mick.
I agree with you that face-painting skills are even more important for busts. With a figure there are other things to look at than with a bust so IMHO it is easier to get a pleasing result with a figure. Personally I would not recommend busts to newcomers for this reason.

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[Ferris]

Hi!
For me, the main advantages of the bust are:
- We can "consume" it faster: I'd paint everyday thousands of figures, when my current speed is about 1 every 3 months! In Spanish we call it "comer por los ojos" and means that with such rate of little wonders delivered every week, we can buy compulsively with the false hope of painting at the same rate. In this respect, the bust are more "productive" for impatient painters.
- For those like me not skilled in "ground" work and keener on painting faces, busts help.
- No tartans
- More detail degree in larger scales.
- It's difficult to paint and properly display many 200mm figures, so the space availability is also a point for the busts.

Having said that, in general, I also prefer complete figures and small vignettes.

Krgds,

Iñaki

Thanks Iñaki.
Good points, although I have seen busts with tartan!
I see your point about higher production rate, but I've always wondered about this. To me it feels a bit like swimming the same distance in a smaller pool. You do more laps, but isn't it about the swimming? Although I recognise the buzz from completing something.
If one doesn't like grounwork, but does like face painting, busts are clearly the way to go.

Thanks again,
Adrian

 

[Ferris]

The thing that attracts me to a piece, first and foremost, is dynamic posing. I love it when it tells a story, gives off an aura, that kind of thing. This, for me, seems difficult to impart in a bust. If I ever tried one, I'm sure it'd end up being a half-figure, waving his arms around the place. I'm also far too find of groundwork, it's a chance to affect the feel of the piece myself rather than just relying on the sculpt.

I recognise your last point particularly, thanks for pointing it out. One thing I like about full figures is that you are completely free to place them in context via appropriate groundwork and tell a story that way. I get much pleasure from that; Maybe this is why busts generally do not give me sparks...? Interesting.

 

[Ferris]

Of my figure collection about 20% are busts 10% Flats and the rest Full figures from 54mm/200mm.


....

At the end of the day it is down to personal taste plus many of the good points already preceding this post. It is good that we have so much choice and long may it continue.

Claude

Thanks Claude.
Good to mention flats. We could ask the same about them, but my feeling is flats are not booming as much as busts. Or are they, perhaps? I know very little of flats.... :-(

Agree with your last point: bottom line is we paint what we like to paint, and preferences differ.

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[Ferris]

I like busts for the following reasons:

1. I like personality pieces which obviously concentrate on the face;
2. I like large scale pieces and 1/5 or 1/6 full figures are too big for my cabinet;
3. The most interesting parts of uniform to my eye are the headgear, torso and awards. Very few figures have attractive or interesting lower bodies (except Andrea pin ups);
4. Modern busts can indicate mood or movement...hands and weapons can be included without looking odd;
5. I hate painting legs and footwear - hence busts;
6. I hate doing groundwork - hence busts;
7. I enjoy sculpting faces, hands and upper bodies but not full figures...anatomy on a full figure is much harder to pull off convincingly.

Thanks for these clear points Colin.
Good ones too. It is clear by now that points 5 and 6 are important factors for others as well.
Although I agree with you On nr 7 in general, I must admit there are some terrificly sculpted busts out there, some with a realism rarely seen on full figures (thanks to larger scale maybe).

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[tonydawe]

I feel that innovations and advance in sculpting, casting and painting have recently concentrated on busts.

For example, Nuts Planet, Life Miniatures and Young Miniatures are leading the charge in this area, they are employing the very best painters and sculptors and their casting is flawless.

By contrast, I think some of the traditional 120mm, 75mm sculptors who are household names on this forum are still producing full figures like they did 20 years ago.

As I get older and my eye sight starts to decline I find the larger scale busts are easier and more rewarding to paint.

It is also a relief to open a box with a new bust and know that I can start painting within hours, not have days of clean up poor casting, flash and mould seams, rebuild and re-sculpt details and prep to do before I can get the brushes wet.

I have nothing against full figures but I'm really enjoying painting busts.

 

[Ferris]

Hi Just thought I would add my bit, as a company that does both foot figs and busts, we find that our customers seem to have a leaning towards bust of late and emails we get are all asking for more busts so as a company we have to watch the market and listen to what the customer likes.

I think it's just getting that right balance for us as long as their is a market for the bust, companies will carry on commissioning them. I think their is room in the hobby for both. but tastes may change and people will drift back to figures again. it's the same with scales 120mm and 200mm seem to be popular at the moment. it's all a question of trends and taste and they change all the time.

I think if you produce a great sculpt then people will buy it what ever the scale, foot or bust. that's what makes the hobby what it is, so much diversity and long my it be so.

cheers

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

Interesting to hear your manufacturer's view Ian.
I was wondering whether the 'rise of busts' was based on growing demand, or on manufacturers simply pushing us more and more busts (because masters are cheaper and are easier to cast than full figures??). Your post suggests the market is working as it should!

What can you say about producing busts vs full figures? Any differences and preferences from your point of view?

Thanks,
Adrian

 

[Metal Extremo]

I feel that innovations and advance in sculpting, casting and painting have recently concentrated on busts.

For example, Nuts Planet, Life Miniatures and Young Miniatures are leading the charge in this area, they are employing the very best painters and sculptors and their casting is flawless.

By contrast, I think some of the traditional 120mm, 75mm sculptors who are household names on this forum are still producing full figures like they did 20 years ago.

As I get older and my eye sight starts to decline I find the larger scale busts are easier and more rewarding to paint.

It is also a relief to open a box with a new bust and know that I can start painting within hours, not have days of clean up poor casting, flash and mould seams, rebuild and re-sculpt details and prep to do before I can get the brushes wet.

I have nothing against full figures but I'm really enjoying painting busts.

I'm no agree with the first part. I think innovations and advances are being applicated to figures too. The difference between sculpt and cast from 20 years ago is enormous. Today we say a bad cast to something that twenty years ago was "normal". In general the sculpt and casts today is very good. And i've got some figures wich box-art painting is not admissible today, and were best-sellers. Our hobby evolved a lot last eight, ten years with resin casts and korean painters IMO. Maybe in a big surface as is a bust the expresion and personality allows find the innovations easyly. I don't like clean and putty, so understand and compart your opinion about enjoyinenment.

 

[ellie]

Hi Adrian

The production of a bust is the same as a foot figure just a bit bigger. you have the same process to go through which ever you do. I would say that a bust is slightly easier as you don't have as Meany parts to worry about. ellie did her fist casting on the new Dragoon bust from offo. I thought this would be a good start for her as it was a simple shape torso the hard bit was the head but she pulled it off.

It can also be down to the sculptor and how he/she engineers the piece as to how complex the casting is going to be. We do clean all our kits up before we send them out so you should have very little to do when it arrives.

Casting and resins have come along way over the years and the quality has gone up. this is down to the quality of resin you use and how well the caster makes the mold and how well the figure has been engineered.

Yes I will say Youngs , Life miniatures, MJ Designs and Nut Planet are leading the way. but lets not forget that other companies are up their with them on both innovation and casting. as they say you are only as good as the product you have to work with. and it's down to companies to get the best out of the sculptors and try and bring out new and interesting subjects which we hope push your skills to another level.

I don't speck for everyone but that's how we look at thing at Ellies.

Cheers

ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[Joe55]

Like some folks, I build and paint whatever strikes my fancy. This is regardless of scale, genre, period and so forth. Initially I didn't care for busts, I felt they looked too much like chess pieces.

Along come Life Miniatures, Antonio Argudo, Carl Reid, and others with wonderfully sculpted historical figures and or players in bust form that reflect the human experience. I slowly began to warm up to these. The way that they are cut, I find appealing. That is to say from about chest level and up. Carl Reid has creatively mastered dramatically animated poses on busts and some of these I find attractive. What I still don't like and for the life of me can absolutely not warm up to, are those cut darn near crotch level with dangling canteens, bayonets, bags or pouches well below that. Personally I find them hideous.

Joe

 

[stormtrooper miniatures]

I think busts are just great. They are fun to paint and generally less involved so that the painting rather than the making are key.

Busts are now evolving into other scales such as 1/16 and these really are fun.

I produce a lot of busts !!!! the reason....You like them. Its not down to manufacturers making you spell bound to go out and buy them....but we do try.

The whole of our hobby has accelerated in terms of quality recently..it is what you want. rightly so too.

Sculptors are all aware of this, pushing harder and striving for better even though some may think they aren't. Sculptors have styles too...this is important as its there signature. Just because some sculpts are" polished,",even sterile doesn't mean they are better quality. Just like everything we all like differing things.

In terms of casting it makes no difference , the end outcome is a great casting, something I personally aim for. I constantly try to improve my casting and moulding keeping pace with others and in this instance the casting of busts has improved greatly.... who can remember those HUGE casting vats, they seam like dinosaurs now !!!.

Busts are certain to stay...they seam to be moving back to there classic style but I like all aspects,,,Half, classic and 3/4 ie one arm. They each convey something.

Busts or figures it doesn't really matter....if you like it paint it. Its what we do

Stuart

 

[Nap]

Hi Guys ,

I reckon Stuart sums it up ! ....

"Busts or figures it doesn't really matter....if you like it paint it. Its what we do"

The same goes for subject matter as well ..historical , fantasy etc if you like it paint it!

Nap

 

[Ferris]

Hi Guys ,

I reckon Stuart sums it up ! ....

"Busts or figures it doesn't really matter....if you like it paint it. Its what we do"

The same goes for subject matter as well ..historical , fantasy etc if you like it paint it!

Nap

Yes, fully agree with that. It's a hobby after all and supposed to be a source of enjoyment.
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, my question is not meant to rank busts higher than full figures or vice versa, but to learn about WHY we enjoy/prefer/detest either of them or both. Some seem to have a clear preference for busts...just wondering where that comes from.

So far I've read some interesting thoughts, some I had not thought of yet.
Maybe I'll even change my preferences....next one on the bench is a bust! one has to try, after all....

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[stormtrooper miniatures]

Yes, fully agree with that. It's a hobby after all and supposed to be a source of enjoyment.

Just to avoid any misunderstanding, my question is not meant to rank busts higher than full figures or vice versa, but to learn about WHY we enjoy/prefer/detest either of them or both. Some seem to have a clear preference for busts...just wondering where that comes from.



So far I've read some interesting thoughts, some I had not thought of yet.

Maybe I'll even change my preferences....next one on the bench is a bust! one has to try, after all....



Cheers,

Adrian

Hi Adrian

Great thread !!!!

Bust or figure it doesn't matter,,,what matters is that you enjoy it. One is not better than the other they both have differing skill sets but from a manufacturing point of view they are the same.
I personally think that when people see a bust they just wish it was a figure and say so !!! It doesn't happen in reverse though,,,hence this idea that busts are not liked.

Stuart

 

[Jazz]

I paint both small scale figures and busts and I enjoy doing both. I personally think busts can have more character and personality as you can put much more detail into the face. Also sometimes I like to get away from painting the "boring" bits of figures, like shoes and legs and hands. But after painting a few busts I am always eager to get back to these "boring" bits again. Its just how I feel at the time. You know what they say, "A change is as good as a rest", and I think this applies here.

 

[ranchhand]

I like busts since they seem to have more character, with such a large upper area you can really get the personality through the face., That an I don't like ground work
I am working on a figure at the moment, the andrea miniatures stormtrooper so we will see how that goes.

 

[ellie]

Hi all I think if you like it paint it, if you enjoy the work then it does not matter whether a bust or a figure it's the enjoyment you get from it that counts.

that's what makes the hobby so good it's the diversity and the challenges each new piece throws up. as a manufacturer and I think stuart will agree it's deciding what will make a good bust or figure then seeing it come to life that is part of the joy for us. then of course the hope that other people like the idea you have come up with.

cheers

ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[samson]

for me i was always a plastic car modeler mostly tom daniel show rods . if you screw up on something its easy to just display it in a way as to hide it . i got into bust's thinking i was gonna jump right in with historical . boy did i am still do have a lot to learn . but anyway everybody knows what a human looks like so there is no hiding it . guess that is what interests me .

 

[TADATSUGU]

Good thread. I've never really understood the appeal myself. I agree there are some beautifully sculpted pieces out there, but every time I see one, I can't help being reminded of those plaster wall plaques my Grannie used to have, .

IT REALLY PUTS ME OFF!