HISTOREX animation

[Plastic Max]

This thread is a spin-off from"HISTOREX collection of figures by PIERRE CONRAD"...

I always thought the parts were incredibly useful for conversion work. The figures themselves always appeared stiff and "toy-soldierish" to me. Now if someone could just retool the body parts and re-bag them with the old equipment sprues maybe they would get a whole new life.

By coincidence, I just read in Shep Paine's "Building and Painting Scale Figures" (received yesterday)... "Historex figures are invariably stiff and awkward looking when assembled straight out of the package, and few modelers ever build one that way".

Bear in mind the kits usually represent soldiers in full dress, the foot figures for example "at attention" or "present arms" or "parade march"... any veterans of the armed forces will probably recall their drill instructors not encouraging slack posture on the parade ground. So, it takes creativity and skill on the part of the model builder to transform the stock figure from the packet and make subtle adjustments to the hips, shoulders, and joints of the limbs to impart a sense of motion or relaxation.

Looking at the figures produced by Shep Paine (and the other guys mentioned above, Max Longhurst, Ray Lamb) as well as those by Pierre Conrad featured in the Historex catalogues or pictured in this thread, not many people would describe them as "toy-soldierish".

From the early 1980s, Historex did offer a range of replacement parts to simplify the process of animation, either in packets or as individual spare parts. To avoid detracting from the purpose and subject matter of this original thread, I will start a new topic regarding Historex animation for more general discussion.

 

[Plastic Max]

The packets of supplementary parts were issued by Historex around 1980 as "Converters Pack no.1 - Movements" (kit #801), followed by a second in 1982 (kit #8201), and a third in 1984 (kit #841).





Each contained a selection of different torso options, pairs of legs in poses other than the standard positions, new pairs of arms, and other accessory parts, such as new headgear or scenic items - shown below are the contents of kit #801 and kit #8201.



These "movement" parts were also made available individually from the spares range, for example -

TORSO
586 Inclining, aiming musket
590 Leaning forward
594 Leaning forward further
596 Leaning backwards
632 Inclining to the left
634 Pivoting to the left
636 Pivoting well to the left
638 Inclining well to the right
668 Inclining to the right
670 Pivoting well to the right
672 Pivoting to the right
674 Inclining well to the left

ARMS
587 Right and left, firing musket
667 Right forward cutting with sword, left holding reins
675 Right reverse cutting with sword, left holding reins

LEGS
J80 Gaitered above knee, seated, left leg forward
J81 Gaitered above knee, seated, right leg forward
J82 Gaitered above knee, seated, both legs forward
J83 Gaitered above knee, seated, both legs back
J84 Gaitered above knee, kneeling, right leg forward
J85 Gaitered above knee, kneeling, left leg forward
J87 Gaitered above knee, standing, right leg slightly extended
J88 Gaitered above knee, seated, right leg crossed over left
J89 Gaitered above knee, standing, right leg well extended
J92 Gaitered above knee, standing, left leg slightly extended
J94 Gaitered above knee, standing, left leg well extended
J95 Gaitered above knee, seated, left leg crossed over right

 

[Plastic Max]

Historex catalogues featured articles by the acknowledged masters, with numerous tips on building and painting.



This edition with Ray Lamb's 9th Hussar Trumpeter on the cover included the following articles -
"Assembling and painting a Historex kit" by Lynn Sangster
"A few tips about converting Historex figures" by Bill Hearne
"Working with Historex" by Shep Paine



This edition with Eugene Leliepvre's The Emperor on the cover included the following articles -
"Miniature or The Figurine" by Pierre Conrad
"Have you been converted to Historex" by Dr. M.Thomas
"Modelling hints of special interest to Historex modellers" by Bryan Fosten
"A discussion of movement" by Eugene Leliepvre

And all contained numerous colour photographs of excellent examples of animated or converted Historex figures, vignettes, and dioramas from the top modellers at that time.

 

[Plastic Max]

A couple of books on the subject -



I just received this a few days ago (thanks to a tip-off from another member here at Planet Figure). Chapter 11 - (nothing to do with bankruptcy, for those readers in the US) - "Assembling and converting plastic figures" worth the price of the book. "I'll focus my discussion on Historex" he writes - with much practical advice, many sketches and photographs of his own models, as well as those by Bill Horan, Bill Ottinger...



Bill Ottinger's Historex Masterclass. Really quite useful, I've got two copies of it. Somebody else has one available on Ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294388962836



Bill Horan's Military Modelling Masterclass. A handy companion, I don't quite recall if it specifically covers Historex? This is also available currently on Ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134010136231

 

[The Riveteer]

As you have quoted me Mark , I'm not looking for an arguement here, just stating my opinion.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about the modelers you refer to and have all the above books, but those guys are considered among the most talented and respected people in the hobby. I fully accept that Historex could be animated but that involved a lot of work to achieve the look presented in the carabinier model you posted earlier, which is superb;- but for the average modeller, building a kit straight from the box you got something like the lancer figure, which, although well modelled, still looks stiff and awkward to me;- "toy soldier-ish" (no disrespect to any toy soldier collectors, I just consider that a different discipline with it's own aesthetics).



can understand someone wanting to buy these figures out of nostalgia, as a bid to own a piece of modelling history, but otherwise I just feel they show their age.
I entered the hobby myself by cutting my teeth on these kits (and Airfix), following conversion breakdowns in Airfix and Military Modelling magazines, but I wouldn't use them to start a Diorama now.
Modelers of the calibre of Shep Paine also had little else to choose from at the time. Hinton Hunt were detailed, but similarly "toyish" looking. We had Rose Miniatures which were nicely done but limited in range and difficult to convert.
Shep Paine's "The Eve of Essling" tis still impressive today but would he really start it today using Historex figures, or would he use the likes of Metal Modeles or Chronos figures for example?.

David

 

[Plastic Max]

David, no argument from me, you have your opinion, most other people appear to have appreciated the photographs of the collection by Pierre Conrad (and his brother or son). We all seem to be in agreement that figures by the master modellers displayed in the Historex catalogues were amongst the best examples of what could be produced from a standard kit, maybe some spare parts, and a fair degree of talent.

I know the average guy wouldn't get the same results, I know I didn't, but still enjoyed making the effort to convert Historex and Airfix (none built straight out of the packet) in preference to painting a stock cast metal figure which didn't appeal to me - even though there was a lot of them available. I seem to remember amongst others Stadden, Tradition, Lasset, Hinchliffe, Phoenix, New Hope Design, as well as Rose and Hinton Hunt which you mentioned as "limited in range"... "difficult to convert"... "toyish". Metal figures depend (at least as much as plastic figures) on the skill of the painter, the average person probably wouldn't get the same level of finish as would a top artist?

By the end of the 1970s, I had moved away from the hobby, into other pursuits (motorbikes, girlfriends, college, etc, etc). The Historex range of "movements" parts available after 1980 - in particular a dozen different torso options and a dozen new pairs of legs - would have made the process of animating figures so much quicker and far easier (and safer too, a school-friend would often say "a slip of the knife... and Bob's your Auntie"). The parts I listed above are still available, and Historex now also offer a range of resin heads, with or without headgear, for more choice. I often used to substitute the standard head provided in an Historex kit with one of their 'personality' heads to avoid figures all looking alike.

To me, the charging Carabinier wouldn't have taken a lot of time to animate, perhaps an adjustment at the waist (a wedge cut from the hips and turned) to lean the body forward, alteration to the angle of the neck/head, a different arm/hand for the sword, perhaps a modification to the lower legs to counter-balance the shift in the body weight, no change to the torso itself as a cuirass doesn't allow for much range of motion in the body. The pose of the Lancer trumpeter looks alright, sitting upright and alert as if on duty, rather than slumped in a relaxed posture.

As regards "The Eve of Essling", I really couldn't say how Shep Paine would approach that any differently. Certainly, there were many metal figures available at the time he created that diorama, but could they have provided the full scope of subjects included, in the poses he wanted...? No doubt there was a very good reason for the decision to use Historex. Nowadays, whether or not the Metal Modeles or Chronos brands would be suitable, how many of the specific figures required are available, or how readily could their metal or resin products be adapted to depict the broad range of senior officers and staff in the scene? How much would the whole diorama weigh with so many mounted metal figures? Maybe Historex would still have been chosen, possibly he might utilise Chronos horses, who knows?

 

[The Riveteer]

Mark
How these things escalate. I too enjoyed and appreciated your posting. I just felt, that by your response that you had interpreted my post as a criticism of you posting it. That was not the intent, but I suppose these impersonal devices we use may lead to such misunderstandings. I seem to suffer from this a lot - maybe it's just me?
Yes, using Metal Modeles for a project is limiting to many, not to mention the cost, but the variety of figures that , say, Ivo Preda can get out of their range demonstrates their viability for conversion work - using Historex parts!
When I'm using the term Model Soldier-ish I'm only referring to lack of, or limited animation.
Maybe contradictorily, I like Metal Modeles a lot because they are varied in pose but not so extreme in action - a goldilocks spot for me, that means with a little work, they can be posed easily in small groups for dioramas and vignettes. I think that by using upper torsos of some foot figures, for example their Marshals and General officers, and combining them with mounted legs and horses from other figures, something like Essling could be achieved - but admittedly, only if you mortgaged the house first,

I'll shut up now and let someone else have a say

David

 

[Ray Stout]

This is precisely why this hobby is known as Military MODELLING, and not just Figure Painting.In the 70s and 80s, the BMSS definitions were, Conversion, " A figure that in NO way resembles the origonal cast figure". Animation, "a figure that still remains the same figure, but animated into a different pose". These figures below are Historex, converted into a Diorama showing the leaving of James 2nd of the UK done in the late 70s by Bill Lascombe, and the other is a combination of the Hinchcliffe 90mm Gothic Knight, and the Almond Studios standing Knight I did in the 80s. just to demonstrate the differences in definitions. Ray

 

[Paul Handley]

It’s nice to see a bit of friendly to and fro about Historex. After over forty years of building them I still have little interest in building/painting anything else. If your own interest is in building out of the box or painting stock figures, they’re probably not for you; compared to the resin and metal miracles produced by modern sculptors they’re little more than mannequins and require a fair level of skill and experience to produce something of a good standard. Indeed, it might be more useful to think of Historex as a modelling medium in its own right rather than as straightforward ‘kits’ per se.

What they do offer however is a flexibility that no modern kits even begin to approach. The wooden poses themselves then become an advantage because they act rather like an artist’s lay figure that can be infinitely repositioned as desired.

I’ve always wanted to produce one-off figures, sparked by my perusing of books, paintings or uniform plates and there’s only really Historex that gives me the ability to produce whatever my imagination can concoct. Again, they’re not for the faint hearted and if you’re going to have a go at building them, be prepared to ruin quite a lot of kits and have nothing to show for your labours besides a little more skill and experience. Actually finishing one does happen eventually if you’re prepared to persevere.

Personally nothing charms and delights me like beautifully made and painted Historex figures; they allow for a modeller’s creativity and imagination that only building entirely from scratch can compete with. If the Napoleonic wars produced nothing else besides the industrial slaughter of an entire generation of young men in the service of one bloke’s ego, at least we’ve got these bloody kits that have given a few of us a lifetime of pleasure and satisfaction (as well as a generous helping of frustration and despair - it has to be said).

 

[Paul Handley]

View attachment 438111

Bill Horan's Military Modelling Masterclass. A handy companion, I don't quite recall if it specifically covers Historex? This is also available currently on Ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134010136231

All of those books are essential reading for anyone wanting to work with Historex kits - the Shep Paine book, particularly, is as inspiring as it is informative. The Bill Horan book doesn’t cover Historex specifically but looking through his builds it’s hard to imagine his work without his dependence on Historex spare parts and horses. I often get that book out just look at the picture of Greg de Franco’s Line Lancer, Colonel Jolly. That’s how it’s done.

 

[Historex Rob]

I’ve always wanted to produce one-off figures, sparked by my perusing of books, paintings or uniform plates and there’s only really Historex that gives me the ability to produce whatever my imagination can concoct. Again, they’re not for the faint hearted and if you’re going to have a go at building them, be prepared to ruin quite a lot of kits and have nothing to show for your labours besides a little more skill and experience. Actually finishing one does happen eventually if you’re prepared to persevere.

Great post, Paul.

You know already that I agree with you, but this final paragraph is SO well stated.

 

[Historex Rob]

The Bill Horan book doesn’t cover Historex specifically but looking through his builds it’s hard to imagine his work without his dependence on Historex spare parts and horses. I often get that book out just look at the picture of Greg de Franco’s Line Lancer, Colonel Jolly. That’s how it’s done.

Totally agree; great piece.

Bill Ottinger’s 20th Chasseur trumpeter is the piece that got me into the hobby. A masterpiece.

 

[Paul Handley]

Bill Ottinger’s 20th Chasseur trumpeter is the piece that got me into the hobby. A masterpiece.

View attachment 471978

Definitely vying for the top spot along with his Chasseur officer.

 

[blaster]

Historex is tops for me. Slim elegant figures which has a charm of their own or outstanding when fully converted. This is their house style Metal modeles are very stout elegant figures, their house style.

Victor

 

[NigelR]

Interesting thread. I am on both sides of the argument. I agree that Historex are completely outdated and IMO their only value when built "out of the box" is nostalgia. There are so many fantastic figures available that it's hard to see why figure painters would be interested in them. However, I'm with Paul on their "convertability". If you want to convert figures and make something unique, then Historex are like Airfix multi-pose figures, or the equivalent of ICM in 1/35. They are easy to hack about and the range of accessories is amazing, so for converters and scratchbuilders they are a great resource and you can get great results from them. They are especially good for diorama work IMO. Also, pair them with replacement heads and hands from the likes of Nemrod and FigurinItaly and you can create something just as good as any commercial figure IMO.

I have lots of current figures but I also bought some Historex figures to hack about. I want to see if I can do what the likes of Paine, Ottinger and Horan did, as they inspired me back in the day (and still do....). My big regret is chucking out the massive box of Historex spares I accumulated over the years in the 70s and 80s when I was building them!

 

[Merryweather]

Ouch!

 

[ivopreda]

I was a fanatical Historex builder in the 1970s/80s...
Historex were a great school, knowing how to build them teaches you how to assemble any modern figure.

My version of colonel Jolly, full Historex figure

trophies ... full historex

full historex conversion 1988 . Piedmontese army


perhaps I was one of the first to combine Historex with Le Cimier metal figures... when I discovered they were compatible.

a mounted Kirmann combining Histirex and Le Cimier figure

Today we are more painters than builders... many are not able to assemble some very simple details.

But it is also true that in the past metal figures were rare, expensive and of very poor quality, and Historex were an opportunity to have something better and more flexible.

However, each project lives its own period and remains as a good memory and school... I am still in contact with Historex and every now and then I open the spare parts box to look for some details...

long live Historex

 

[NigelR]

Ouch!

No, remember what I said - they are especially good for diorama work. And you are proving that correct!!

 

[Merryweather]

No offense inferred at all, Nigel, I was referring to throwing it all out!

 

[NigelR]

No offense inferred at all, Nigel, I was referring to throwing it all out!

Whoops, and yes, ouch! I had a LOT of spares.