Illegal copies...Our point of view
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Claude Portsmouth
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Hi Pedro, don't take it to heart.....it was a good idea but probably unworkable from an organisers point of view.
I don't think there is any easy answer to the problem............it is one for the Manufacturers to find a solution to..................in truth there are probably enough figures laying around in Grey Armies to keep the hobby going for another 20 years...........a pretty sobering thought.
Claude
I don't think there is any easy answer to the problem............it is one for the Manufacturers to find a solution to..................in truth there are probably enough figures laying around in Grey Armies to keep the hobby going for another 20 years...........a pretty sobering thought.
Claude
kevininpdx
A Fixture
I appreciate Pegaso's post. They are my favorite producer. That being said why don't they post on this site? Marketing is what is missing for this hobby. 
Claude Portsmouth
Well-Known Member
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- Dec 23, 2014
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I get regular updates directly to my E.Mail address, if you sign on to their site they are happy to do this. I think it has already been said that their new releases are usually flagged up by a member. Maybe they will be more aggressive on the site with marketing now that they have joined.
Claude
Claude
Pegaso Models
Member
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- 18
Dear Friends,
There should be more reasons behind the fact to be present or not in the Forums. To be present like a manufacturer maybe is slightly different than be present only by yourself. You are "exposed" to a continue confrontation with lots of passionate modelers. With (a majority of) interesting arguments and some not interesting arguments. If you do it...than is good and educate to answer to questions.
We want to clear that if we were not in the forums in the past was mainly because we did not feel to being able to give a continuous presence. And we were scared that a presence "yes & no" was not a positive thing for us. Believe me or not....this is the main point.
General market of the figure is going down since the beginning of the new millennium...if this was the principal reason...we had to be present 14 years ago...
We are not complaining like childrens because modelers buys illegal copies. Everyone is free to make their choices....the consequences of this or that way to approach will be more evident in the future. The 100% of the work to survive will be on our shoulders. To be able to realize good figures (no...not only good figures....but good figures that matches the interests of the modelers...) and to find the ways to fight agains copiers (you already know...more easy to say than to do...). That's a matter of fact. Modelers...since the beginning of times....are 100% free to buy what they want. And so they will be.
That's another point...we are a quite "old" company now....and during the years what we recognize was a process of changing in the way to SPEAK about the figures, to know the new releases and, for the producers, to present them. Joining Facebook in February 2014 was a step on this way. Planet Figures becomes later...but now here we are. In the meantime...and not for a strange case...classic figure magazines are not living their "golden age". Sadly. Speaking about myself and despite on my age (40) I was not, and still I'm not, so in confidence with the "internet" comunication system. Now I recognize that this lack of presence was damaging Pegaso. Look......not (only) for the sales....but (mostly) for the contacts with the modelers. Contacts that are always excellent and friendly when we meet in the Fairs but very limited in time.
For this reason we are here. The Illegal copies matter was just an "excuse" even if it is a more and more important problem. We had the feeling to be obliged to make an official comment after another aggressive reply from that side. And Planet Figure was the first place to do it.
I just hope to being able to be so present like I whish!
Cheers to all,
Pietro
There should be more reasons behind the fact to be present or not in the Forums. To be present like a manufacturer maybe is slightly different than be present only by yourself. You are "exposed" to a continue confrontation with lots of passionate modelers. With (a majority of) interesting arguments and some not interesting arguments. If you do it...than is good and educate to answer to questions.
We want to clear that if we were not in the forums in the past was mainly because we did not feel to being able to give a continuous presence. And we were scared that a presence "yes & no" was not a positive thing for us. Believe me or not....this is the main point.
General market of the figure is going down since the beginning of the new millennium...if this was the principal reason...we had to be present 14 years ago...
We are not complaining like childrens because modelers buys illegal copies. Everyone is free to make their choices....the consequences of this or that way to approach will be more evident in the future. The 100% of the work to survive will be on our shoulders. To be able to realize good figures (no...not only good figures....but good figures that matches the interests of the modelers...) and to find the ways to fight agains copiers (you already know...more easy to say than to do...). That's a matter of fact. Modelers...since the beginning of times....are 100% free to buy what they want. And so they will be.
That's another point...we are a quite "old" company now....and during the years what we recognize was a process of changing in the way to SPEAK about the figures, to know the new releases and, for the producers, to present them. Joining Facebook in February 2014 was a step on this way. Planet Figures becomes later...but now here we are. In the meantime...and not for a strange case...classic figure magazines are not living their "golden age". Sadly. Speaking about myself and despite on my age (40) I was not, and still I'm not, so in confidence with the "internet" comunication system. Now I recognize that this lack of presence was damaging Pegaso. Look......not (only) for the sales....but (mostly) for the contacts with the modelers. Contacts that are always excellent and friendly when we meet in the Fairs but very limited in time.
For this reason we are here. The Illegal copies matter was just an "excuse" even if it is a more and more important problem. We had the feeling to be obliged to make an official comment after another aggressive reply from that side. And Planet Figure was the first place to do it.
I just hope to being able to be so present like I whish!
Cheers to all,
Pietro
peedee
A Fixture
Pietro
It is refreshing that someone is so honest and open.
I have had a lot of worries about the Internet myself and am a newcomer.
You only know afterwards if you make a mistake.
So, it will be good to hear more from you in the future on this Forum.
Continued best regards.
You have never compromised on the quality of your figures
I applaud you
Paul
It is refreshing that someone is so honest and open.
I have had a lot of worries about the Internet myself and am a newcomer.
You only know afterwards if you make a mistake.
So, it will be good to hear more from you in the future on this Forum.
Continued best regards.
You have never compromised on the quality of your figures
I applaud you
Paul
Tubby-Nuts2
A Fixture
Pietro,
The fact that you are here, and realize the potential of todays format of communication and all the 'Tech', that this entails. Can only be good for you as a company, and for us as consumers!
Regards,
Mark
The fact that you are here, and realize the potential of todays format of communication and all the 'Tech', that this entails. Can only be good for you as a company, and for us as consumers!
Regards,
Mark
Pegaso Models
Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2015
- Messages
- 18
Dear Paul and Mark,
Thank you for your understanding....I will do my best to be open to this new (for me) way of communication.
I wish to put on the table a couple of points of view more about the figure market.....
1) In the recent years the number of private modelers that buys on our website from Russia and far east (China, South Korea and so on...)is rising up. We were really happy about this...but soon a problem comes out. This problem is called: CUSTOM DUTIES. Pegaso sells his products exclusively with an official Invoice. Well.....when the parcel arrives to these countries...the receivers were asked to pay high custom duties. in a good number of cases they refused to pay and the parcel went back to us. Then....we had to pay the custom duties by ourselves only to have our stuff back! This happened many times.
I already suspected that a good number of these clients were illegal copiers....but everyone is innocent until is prouved to be guilty. But I see also that the custom duties amounts, much before the price of the figures, were hard to be acceptable for these clients...even for the ones that by continue purchases and direct contacts I can bet to be honest modellers. And some of them did not even understood that this was a law from their own countries and not an income for Pegaso.
2) Another point....when you see the price of the figures.....please do not forget that we are mainly a distributed producer. The big part of our sales are made throught shops and distributors. They made an excellent and necessary work....but they take a percentage on this. And that's 100% correct. The minority of the kits are sold at their entire price.
3) Another thought more...(sorry to be boring eh eh eh).....when we go to the fairs, like Euromilitaire, we have not few costs, you can immagine. Togheter with this I can say to you that every purchase made with Credit Card is Invoiced (of course). Plus...we make a communication to the VAT office in Italy when we are back from the fair declaring our incomes. And paying the taxes on this.
Forgive me....I see that I'm speaking too much. But maybe it is the price to pay for a long time silence.
Pietro
Thank you for your understanding....I will do my best to be open to this new (for me) way of communication.
I wish to put on the table a couple of points of view more about the figure market.....
1) In the recent years the number of private modelers that buys on our website from Russia and far east (China, South Korea and so on...)is rising up. We were really happy about this...but soon a problem comes out. This problem is called: CUSTOM DUTIES. Pegaso sells his products exclusively with an official Invoice. Well.....when the parcel arrives to these countries...the receivers were asked to pay high custom duties. in a good number of cases they refused to pay and the parcel went back to us. Then....we had to pay the custom duties by ourselves only to have our stuff back! This happened many times.
I already suspected that a good number of these clients were illegal copiers....but everyone is innocent until is prouved to be guilty. But I see also that the custom duties amounts, much before the price of the figures, were hard to be acceptable for these clients...even for the ones that by continue purchases and direct contacts I can bet to be honest modellers. And some of them did not even understood that this was a law from their own countries and not an income for Pegaso.
2) Another point....when you see the price of the figures.....please do not forget that we are mainly a distributed producer. The big part of our sales are made throught shops and distributors. They made an excellent and necessary work....but they take a percentage on this. And that's 100% correct. The minority of the kits are sold at their entire price.
3) Another thought more...(sorry to be boring eh eh eh).....when we go to the fairs, like Euromilitaire, we have not few costs, you can immagine. Togheter with this I can say to you that every purchase made with Credit Card is Invoiced (of course). Plus...we make a communication to the VAT office in Italy when we are back from the fair declaring our incomes. And paying the taxes on this.
Forgive me....I see that I'm speaking too much. But maybe it is the price to pay for a long time silence.
Pietro
Claude Portsmouth
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2014
- Messages
- 339
Hello Pietro.
Good to see you on the forum but I warn you it can become addictive
Your post provides another good insight into the problems experienced by Manufacturers in bringing products to market. I suppose the problem of VAT is universal if we in the UK as private customers buy from outside of the Eurozone we are faced with a 20% VAT charge plus a handling charge from the carrier. That coupled with high postal charges makes it difficult to buy from the USA for example.
Occasionally you strike lucky and they get through the customs net.
One assumes that your customers in the Far East are faced with the same problem.
Good to see you on the forum but I warn you it can become addictive
Your post provides another good insight into the problems experienced by Manufacturers in bringing products to market. I suppose the problem of VAT is universal if we in the UK as private customers buy from outside of the Eurozone we are faced with a 20% VAT charge plus a handling charge from the carrier. That coupled with high postal charges makes it difficult to buy from the USA for example.
Occasionally you strike lucky and they get through the customs net.
One assumes that your customers in the Far East are faced with the same problem.
Claude Portsmouth
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2014
- Messages
- 339
One more question, may I ask what your policy is regarding 54mm figures? are you slowly deleting them from the range? or will you continue to supply the range without adding to it? I notice that you were selling some off at Euro and wondered if this was a policy to reduce the range or just to reduce the inventory.
Sorry if the question is impertinent, I will understand if you don't respond.
Do I need to chase round filling gaps in the collection
Claude
Sorry if the question is impertinent, I will understand if you don't respond.
Do I need to chase round filling gaps in the collection
Claude
Pegaso Models
Member
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- Jan 5, 2015
- Messages
- 18
Hi Claude,
I know the "forum addiction problems" eh eh eh...not yet related on my but by looking to some friends
VAT problem is, let's say, universal. But it is not the same for all the countries. Following the law, for example, Pegaso is obliged to apply, not only on italian sales but on european countries sales, the Italian VAT. This is actually the 22%...not the 20%! If we sell to private customers in UK...we have to apply the 22% VAT.
Years ago...I remember was just after one Euromilitaire show, the italian goverment changed the VAT from 20% to 21%. That time no one was complaining...because we take the weight of this tax rising, without changing our customer's prices vat included. Sadly was not possible to do the same when, lately, the "good" italian government decided to rise again from the 21% to the actual 22%....No words.
By looking to our experience...in some countries the custom duties are higher than this percentage. And there is a lower "culture" to pay for such costs. We constantly receive requests of shipping without invoice. We solve one problem....and we create a new one.
Express courier costs...are unbelievable. But not only in the amount....specially regarding the way they calculate them! We have a contract with a well known express courier. And we received a price list from them. Well....there are a lot of cost voices that are not included in the price list. First of all the Fuel surcharge that is changing every month. Recently was the 16% more from the price list....
Someone can say....you can use the postal service! But don't forget that you live in UK, Germany, Sweden and so on.....we are in Italy. And our postal service is legendary...
Regarding 54mm...actually we have a big part of our old range still available. No intention to put other 54mm figures out of production. To start again with new 54mm...we will see. Actually we have no intention but never say never. I mean....for historical figures. In fact our latest 54mm mounted figure was released for Christmas...but is a fantasy figure...I don't know if counts
Special offers at Euro or other Fairs are simply because we recognize that economical situation is hard for everybody...so we try to make special offers on some kits (depending on stock) and in some particular moments....
So...to be back to the question...special offers are to reduce the inventory and not the range.
Pietro
I know the "forum addiction problems" eh eh eh...not yet related on my but by looking to some friends
VAT problem is, let's say, universal. But it is not the same for all the countries. Following the law, for example, Pegaso is obliged to apply, not only on italian sales but on european countries sales, the Italian VAT. This is actually the 22%...not the 20%! If we sell to private customers in UK...we have to apply the 22% VAT.
Years ago...I remember was just after one Euromilitaire show, the italian goverment changed the VAT from 20% to 21%. That time no one was complaining...because we take the weight of this tax rising, without changing our customer's prices vat included. Sadly was not possible to do the same when, lately, the "good" italian government decided to rise again from the 21% to the actual 22%....No words.
By looking to our experience...in some countries the custom duties are higher than this percentage. And there is a lower "culture" to pay for such costs. We constantly receive requests of shipping without invoice. We solve one problem....and we create a new one.
Express courier costs...are unbelievable. But not only in the amount....specially regarding the way they calculate them! We have a contract with a well known express courier. And we received a price list from them. Well....there are a lot of cost voices that are not included in the price list. First of all the Fuel surcharge that is changing every month. Recently was the 16% more from the price list....
Someone can say....you can use the postal service! But don't forget that you live in UK, Germany, Sweden and so on.....we are in Italy. And our postal service is legendary...
Regarding 54mm...actually we have a big part of our old range still available. No intention to put other 54mm figures out of production. To start again with new 54mm...we will see. Actually we have no intention but never say never. I mean....for historical figures. In fact our latest 54mm mounted figure was released for Christmas...but is a fantasy figure...I don't know if counts
Special offers at Euro or other Fairs are simply because we recognize that economical situation is hard for everybody...so we try to make special offers on some kits (depending on stock) and in some particular moments....
So...to be back to the question...special offers are to reduce the inventory and not the range.
Pietro
Pegaso Models
Member
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I see that I have to be shorter with my posts...or people will start to sleep!
tomifune
PlanetFigure Supporter
Tubby-Nuts2
A Fixture
I see that I have to be shorter with my posts...or people will start to sleep!
Pietro,.
Whatever do you mean ?
We all have to work in shifts!
Mark
Claude Portsmouth
Well-Known Member
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- Dec 23, 2014
- Messages
- 339
Hi Pietro,
Thanks for the comprehensive response and for clarifying the situation regarding the 54mm range-glad to hear that you think there is still some life in them yet!
I find myself constantly bemused at the disparity among carriers. For example this week I needed to send an Item valued at £195 to Japan - it weighed just 485 Grams. Insured Signed and Tracked by DHL, Fed-Ex and Parcel Force was in each case well over £60- to send it by Royal Mail (the same company as Parcel Force) was £14.95................if one can do it why can't they all? You are right about the Italian Mail Service by the way!
Take care.......I'll be rooting through the bargain bin again at Euro.................. .Claude
Thanks for the comprehensive response and for clarifying the situation regarding the 54mm range-glad to hear that you think there is still some life in them yet!
I find myself constantly bemused at the disparity among carriers. For example this week I needed to send an Item valued at £195 to Japan - it weighed just 485 Grams. Insured Signed and Tracked by DHL, Fed-Ex and Parcel Force was in each case well over £60- to send it by Royal Mail (the same company as Parcel Force) was £14.95................if one can do it why can't they all? You are right about the Italian Mail Service by the way!
Take care.......I'll be rooting through the bargain bin again at Euro...........
....... .Claudewaterloo1815
Well-Known Member
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- Messages
- 268
My GOD - is this getting old or what??
Pegaso
New Member
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Hello Mark
this is what I wrote to the Admins of Planet when asking for the permission to put our comments about recasters on Planet:
"I had intention to open a THREAD as Pegaso Company to show the question and to have with Modelers an open and civil face to face about the argument.
As you surely know I'm not in habit to partecipate to public forums, I think Companies must do their work and to leave Modelers to freely discuss about it."
This is to explain you our position about to partecipate at forums.
You affirm that on other Communities we put our news; sorry but you are wrong.
We never put our news on Forums but it is true that some Friends of us were showing SOME of our products on the forums where they partecipate.
It is not a question of raising or falling market.
May be we were wrong in such a business policy but we were convinced that it was not so "elegant" to enter in a Forum and to push Modelers to comment our new products (and possibly to push them to purchase it).
We know very well that PLANET is the largest Modelers Community on the net and we THANK PLANET for existing and continuing to support the world of models. Planet has our full respect, this is for sure
We thought some weeks befor to decide to open this thread and only for one reason: RESPECT for roles
But the argument (Recasters) was so important that we decided to do it after receiving the permission of the Planet Admins.
Luca Marchetti
martin tabony
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martin tabony
A Fixture
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Hi Pietro,
Thanks for the comprehensive response and for clarifying the situation regarding the 54mm range-glad to hear that you think there is still some life in them yet!
I find myself constantly bemused at the disparity among carriers. For example this week I needed to send an Item valued at £195 to Japan - it weighed just 485 Grams. Insured Signed and Tracked by DHL, Fed-Ex and Parcel Force was in each case well over £60- to send it by Royal Mail (the same company as Parcel Force) was £14.95................if one can do it why can't they all? You are right about the Italian Mail Service by the way!
Take care.......I'll be rooting through the bargain bin again at Euro...........
That could be one reson why the Royal Mail is having problems.
waterloo1815
Well-Known Member
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- Apr 9, 2009
- Messages
- 268
Martin - What a classy response!!! THANK YOU for the advice - I won't waste my time anymore!! Just so you know - I have been in and out of this hobby since the mid-1960's and recasting or piracy was going on way back then - in my opinion there is NO stopping it !! All we can do is weather the storm as best as we can. NO need to get your panties in a bunch!!
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