Members - a Question

[Nap]

Hi Guys

Members leave and return for many different reasons so

Thanks again to Huw we would appreciate your thoughts and ideas on this :

IS THERE A WAY OF ENTICING THEM BACK ?

Nap

 

[Tony Dawe]

I'm not sure why we'd want to entice someone back if they have voluntarily left the forum. You're free to come and go at your leisure and that freedom is what makes this forum so popular. It's not an exclusive"members only" club but a general forum for people who love figure modelling. If you don't want to be a member then I'd say "thanks and farewell". If you want to come back, I say "welcome back".
No enticement should be necessary. Are we that desperate for members?

 

[Nap]

Hi Tony

Thanks for comments , IMO we are not desperate for members as such , the idea was raised after a valuable member decided to leave .

As you say members are free to do as they wish and certainly not exclusive .

My view is that people will come back if and when they want to and will be welcomed by all

Nap

 

[kagemusha]

Totally agree with Tony on this

I do have one question though.....what makes a member 'valuable'?

Over the years...many members have come and gone and come back again...only to leave again....but the forum goes on.
Which is...IMHO...what makes PF what it is...an enduring place that people can return to time and again...when and if they feel the need.

Ron

 

[Nap]

Hi Ron

Thanks for the reply

All are valued no matter how much or how frequent they post

I agree about the PF comments you made

Thanks

Nap

 

[Martin64]

What kind of enticement could it be other than welcome people back? The rest is up to the members as long as their account was not terminated.
Cheers, Martin

 

[Bailey]

That's a hard question to answer without knowing why people have left.

I admit, I'm a bit perplexed by people who announce they are leaving the forum and then cease all activity or contact with it. I'm active on a number of forums/galleries and facebook. I see pros and cons to them all. The have been times when I've been very active on PlanetFigure and times when my focus has been elsewhere and I've gone months without posting. Regular life, work, family, etc can mean you spend time on other pursuits and aren't on the forum as often. Maybe you'll be on more in the future, maybe you won't. But to actually post that you're leaving and never come back... well, I'm guessing either you've decided to stop working on miniatures or there is a specific incident (or incidents) which has caused that person to feel animosity towards or from the community here.

If someone has issues with the community here and has decided to split from it, I'm not sure how you entice them back. The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is understand what behavior caused them to leave and attempt to prevent it in the future so others don't leave for the same reason.

If the concern is more about members gradually becoming less active in favor of other outlets, then perhaps there are changes that can be made to the forum to bring them back or even just to attract new members. One thing, off the top of my head, would be to create an official PlanetFigure Facebook page. The page could share snippets from Figure News, Reviews, and projects from vBench and Completed Figures. Not the entire post, just a couple images with text like 'Check out this new release from ____, you can read a full review here (link to post on PlanetFigure)' or 'Here's a peak at new work from <PF username>, you can see more of their project here (link to post).' The idea being you'd increase the visibility of posts and gradually build more followers for the site from Facebook. You'd need moderators willing to post images and content from the site onto the Facebook page, but that shouldn't be too much of a time commitment as long as you've got 3-4 willing to do it. Just one idea... whether it's a good or bad one, that's up to you all! =)

 

[theBaron]

Unless someone leaves the forum because of a specific, clear, and obvious wrong, such as being insulted by another member, I don't think we should do anything.

More often, a person leaves because of some perceived wrong, which might stem from a misunderstanding, a poorly chosen word, etc.

If someone feels he should reach out to a person who leaves the forum, especially someone who does so publicly and prominently, eg, "OK, I'm leaving the forum, don't stop me, I mean it this time...", let him do it. But I don't really think it's something we should agonize over.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Range Rat]

I'm back and forth on the forum but will not declare I'm leaving, I go through phases with the figure painting....when I need a boost again I come back on to be rejuvenated.

I have been on a couple of trade forums and seen many an argument ensue, then the phase "I'm leaving for good" rather than have a break for a while and return when things have settled down.

 

[Wayneb]

Everyone goes through moods and problems regarding many things in their life. If I acted on every negative mood in my life I would have never done anything worthwhile and that includes painting miniatures; and probably the most important thing is being married to the right partner and wife for 43yrs. that has backed me in all my interests and pursuits. So I must say this again. If someone wants to leave for a "while" (and that's usually what it is); why not just let them do what they want without all the fanfare. Let him(her) work it out without everyone trying to be a psychologist......One thing I know for certain is that nothing stays the same.....with the exception of God.
Best regards to all,
Wayne

 

[Chrisr]

I do have one question though.....what makes a member 'valuable'?
Ron

That's a hard question to answer without knowing why people have left.

The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is understand what behavior caused them to leave and attempt to prevent it in the future so others don't leave for the same reason.

I heartily agree with Bailey.

Nap is referring specifically to those members who have been very active on the forum, and have contributed a lot to it - both in posting their work, and the help, advice and support they have given others. Then suddenly they announce they are leaving, obviously because they feel offended, disgusted or disgruntled over some issue. This seems to be the root of the matter.

Given you have asked our opinions Nap, here's my two bob's worth. Rather than attempting to entice them back, the focus ought to be on addressing the matters that caused them to leave in the first place. Ascertaining the reasons might enable us to prevent a recurrence, and hence hopefully entice people back, and stop others from leaving. Will leave this in your court as you have the access to those you are referring to.

I know Colin (crf) left because of unsavoury, abusive and rude posts on a thread that went on for too long. I am at a loss to understand why Paul (peedee) left, although I understand it had something to do with a recasters thread. From my experience this is a friendly, supportive and helpful forum, but on occasion ego gets in the way and comments get posted that some find abusive, rude, or which are misinterpreted.

The primary responsibility for ensuring the forum remains a pleasant, helpful and supportive arena free of rude or misconstrued content rests squarely on us the members. We each need to ensure our posts are not offensive or can be misinterpreted as such. On the other hand getting into getting into arguments over the ether ain't worth the effort. Say your piece respectfully and leave it at that. IMO, it is up to us to carefully think about what we post and whether it could cause offence - if in doubt, DON’T. Keep the ego and testosterone in the draw, including those who get miffed at some comment. ​

​

A few think that freedom of speech entitles them to use rude and offensive language - WRONG. It comes with a responsibility to respect others' opinions, and present one's opinion in a courteous manner. So nipping offensive posts in the bud very early will diffuse an issue and stop it getting out of hand: first by ignoring them, and second by the Mods deleting the post as soon as possible after it is posted, and reminding the member such behaviour is unacceptable. Three strikes and you're out. No point in having rules if they are not enforced. The Mods do a good job, but it is time consuming, and they don’t get to see offending comments first up. Members can help by reporting the post as soon as they read it, which will save the Mods a lot of work scrolling through threads.


So for my two bob’s worth, its up to all of us to keep the forum civil, respect the opinions of others, and consider whether a post may offend someone. Second, report and crack down quickly on those who are rude and offensive. Then we may be on the way of keeping those very active members active on the forum, and encourage others to join.

Chris

 

[Martin Antonenko]

I think a forum can never be more than an offer to participate. And over time, each forum gets a special character due to the special and certainly rather random composition of its membership.
And I think this is also good, because forums remain, despite similar content, ultimately unmistakable.
It's just like in real life:Some people like this "character" and they get involved. Some are consuming quietly. Some of them only go into a forum for a very special topic.
And some like this "Carakter" for reasons no longer - and they go.
The two main reasons for leaving a forum are: disinterest and / or injuries after disputes.
I often experience that there are a lot of people who can "do" well themselves, but can "plug in" all the worse. These are usually the first to be offended - and leave the forum.
There is now, as in real life.
To go into it specifically to win back "lost" members would change the character of the forum. And so the forum would ultimately change its "personality".
So you should leave this and say instead: "The course remains the old, full force ahead!"
Two things should make each of us clear:
A word written here weighs heavier than when the same word is said to a counterpart.
Everyone should know the boundary between stretching material discussions and personal insults - and keep your mouth shut if you're not sure!
(I should also consider this more often to myself...!)


Chesrs

 

[Tecumsea]

We lost someone recently who was a huge asset to the forum...yes it was to do with a post about recasting I am told but knowing the individual concerned I am surprised that it was so vitriolic that it was taken down by a moderator.

Such a pity and a great loss.

Keith

 

[Ferris]

That's a hard question to answer without knowing why people have left.

If the concern is more about members gradually becoming less active in favor of other outlets, then perhaps there are changes that can be made to the forum to bring them back or even just to attract new members. One thing, off the top of my head, would be to create an official PlanetFigure Facebook page. The page could share snippets from Figure News, Reviews, and projects from vBench and Completed Figures. Not the entire post, just a couple images with text like 'Check out this new release from ____, you can read a full review here (link to post on PlanetFigure)' or 'Here's a peak at new work from <PF username>, you can see more of their project here (link to post).' The idea being you'd increase the visibility of posts and gradually build more followers for the site from Facebook. You'd need moderators willing to post images and content from the site onto the Facebook page, but that shouldn't be too much of a time commitment as long as you've got 3-4 willing to do it. Just one idea... whether it's a good or bad one, that's up to you all! =)

This is a good point by Bailey. You can't stop people leaving, loudly or silently, and the focus should be on keeping the forum relevant and trying to attract new members. It's very good advice to create presence on Facebook, as it seems attention is shifting there (Although personally I managed to avoid FB until now).

While we are at this topic, I have now been at PF for quite some time and I have to say I find it less interesting these days. The diversity of the active membership seems reduced and there are fewer 'gurus' around is my impression. Quite a few Spanish guys left for example and I still miss Einion's expertise on colour. I note fewer ' expert discussions', about some historical or technical painting topic.
I also feel the relatively recent emphasis on avoiding 'flaring threads' by deleting posts and nipping things in the bud may be counter-productive in the long run. It may prevent a few people from storming out angrily (of which most return eventually), but it also prevents members from speaking out.

Overall, I still think PF is a great forum from which much can be learned, but I do feel some attention needs to be paid to how things are going to prevent a gentle decline.

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Since my name has been brought up by Chris, I guess I will voice my rationale for leaving even if it irritates certain people. The reason Chris notes is pretty far off, which is evidence that others really don't know specific members' motivations to join, stay, leave, participate or whatever. I left primarily due to certain members' intolerance to others commenting on the historical accuracy of new commercial releases. I got tired of being labelled a rivet counter because I value accuracy. I got tired of certain non-moderator members writing as if they owned the site when these disagreements occurred. My so-called rivet counting extended only to my own work and to commercial releases and not to the work of other members.

The second reason was what I considered the unjustified banning of two members, one because he irritated the mods and certain members and the other because commented on accuracy while committing the sin of not posting his own work.

I am now posting my work again but am not taking a full part in the forum.

IMO there is nothing one can do the entice people back. Nor should the site try.

The idea of a PF facebook presence is a good one I think.

Finally, I think the site should ask why almost all North American members have given up on it. Back in the days of ancestor forums like MMHQ and HMF, there were a lot of very active US and Canadian members. Same early in PF's life too. Now the site is very UK-centric. Lots of in jokes, banter and what could be seen as a possible clique atmosphere. Sorry if you don't want to hear it but that is how I see it. Nothing wrong with that but it does effect participation of those offshore.

Anyway, hopefully that is if some value to the discussion. I am not looking for an argument and won't respond if anyone has a go. PM me if you want.

I am off to paint little men.

 

[Chrisr]

Thank you Colin. My apologies in misrepresenting your reasons. Good points all round that strike a chord with why I left another forum. Harping intolerance and inability to see others' view on an issue.

Chris

 

[Nap]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the posts and comments

I like the PF Facebook prescience idea

I am sat here painting and thinking on this very heavily ...members leave and return and join for many reasons and sometimes "rash" decisions are made that are considered badly thought out by those affected .

Now you lot are sensible enough to know which mod did something that resulted in a member leaving ...and be assured I would like no more than for him to return and would appreciate folk contacting him just to say how members feel , he contributed a heck of a lot as said .

I have a lot of respect and admiration for the member concerned both as a guy and a modeller

Modding is never easy ..believe me

Thanks for reading this and do contact the mod .....me if you wish

Nap

 

[Huw63]

Hi

a chance to get my thoughts in.

I enjoy this forum as a news source, a means of learning and also of making friendships.

My thought is that while people leave for their own reasons I find it a shame that people leave as they are being attacked (or at least feel so), especially as some bring much new information to the forum. There is a place for all and criticism levelled as someone points out a factual error is ridiculous where the individual can cite references to justify his remark. The richness of knowledge we could gain by getting people interested in rejoining PF is, in my humble opinion, a reason to make the effort to intice people back.

Likewise it is clear that the forum is losing international members (I'm a Brit so I will exclude myself from this comunity) and a reversal of that trend might be an idea though I've no idea how. Here the richness of exchanging information is of benefit to the forum as a whole for instance, I haven't seen Zastrow on here for a while and am grateful that Martin is also posting references.

Next I thinl the idea of a FB presence is something worthwhile. So good idea! Having said that it would mean I'd need to join FB and risk the millions of friends request from people who I have no interest in being in contact with.

Finally thanks to Kevin for taking my thoughts and asking for opinions. And thanks to all who've responded with theor considered opinions.

I've little time to add more to this thread in coming weeks but it's good to listen and talk.

Cheers

Huw

 

[kagemusha]

Bravo Colin....it is a real eye opener to have you explain why you left the forum.
It also illustrates why 'assumption is the mother of all f**k ups'.
We all have the right to our opinions....it's how we go about presenting them that does the damage.
I personally called time on my figure painting a couple of years back...although I did explain my reasons in order to avoid any such assumptions being made.
It was my choice to return to the forum a couple of times thereafter....and I was met with warmth and humour....and I continue to pop in and out to keep in contact with those members I regard as friends.
Whilst I have no idea as to why our friends across the pond are leaving.....I can try to understand....wish them well...and hope they also keep in touch with what goes on here on PF from time to time.
Personally...I can see the merit in having a Facebook presence....it just isn't for me...as I have had a few bad experiences with it.
At the end of the day....we all have choices....that's life...we make some good ones....and some bad.....it's about learning from the bad ones that makes us who we are.

Ron

 

[CGS military figures]

Heard it all now, how dare I be British (uk)with a sense of humour lol.
I closed my Gra30 personal account years ago, I think I joined 2002 hence my title as born 1972.
The closing was actually supported by comments like us Brits have a weird sense of humour and are clicky, in fact it was driven by a certain few who wanted in my opinion to oust us ,UK, off the forum.

There was an obvious drive for this as some became Mods, they didn't last long, 2 I know had a try, they commented when they wanted and ALWAYS a regular negative post to certain products under the guise of accuracy followed by instant like by the 3 dwarves that followed , Doctor, Dransfield, bitter or not. One was very talented but still had a gripe because of my birth country I think. One who was banned was a complete and utter rude man, he spent more oxygen arguing than breathing, but of course, it was ok and he was just using HIS sense of humour.

It never is or was mentioned that Timelines ran parallel to this Forum at the same time, I joined the same time with the same name.

Timelines was very US and Canada orientated but we, the UK never commented negative that way as it was each to their own. I think there are HUGE sour grapes that fuelled it, the pattern of recent nay saying says it all and I wonder why some frequented here rather than there, probably because Timelines took no S..t and the guys would have been caught out.

The reason also timelines went the way as did PF is because the US guys had more chance of meeting each other at shows US side as does the PF side with UK and Europe, but that's too easy to not think about to a certain few, far easier to blame it on us being clicky .

My Gra30 account was my personal as a modeller and I was so disgusted in the what I did see as out house bullying I left.

I do post as Cgs, I do support the forum with FOTM and will continue but it's a far better place now than it was 3 years ago, thank god, maybe because of the obvious!

Interesting that years ago I supported Facebook as the way, alongside, and now those that decried it support it because they never got the helm they wanted. If honest I would and shoukd post more as I think now PF has got its vibe back.


I do larf
And as a foot note Ron, hope you are well mate and we catch up sometime, your bust is safe in my collection