News March: Chronos Miniatures CHM-54170, 54170(M) & CHM-75026

[Don Troiani]

There's no comparison between an artists hand and a 3D sculpt. One has feeling and sensitivity and the other one is just what it is. And this is a great example.

Perhaps , but it is stealing and a violation of copyright law nonetheless.

 

[Wayneb]

Yeah.....That's true....but in the grand scheme of things it's probably nickel dime and it probably doesn't have much more value then a 3D coloring book. I personally don't think from a monetary standpoint it's even worth a dispute. 3D sculpting that basically comes from copying will have it's place, like it or not. But true art such as yours will always have it's place long after all us ole timers are gone.
Regards,
Wayne

 

[Don Troiani]

Wayne, Most likely , but I don't think W. Britain is going to like this as it's stealing from them as well and they are in the 3D business. If infringers are not called out on what's to stop them and others from creating a lot more?

 

[svt]

Point taken, I apologize to the members here, I get a bit overheated about this. You have to understand if one does defend your copyright , you can lose it in future cases. There is no way to sue anyone in Russia or China realistically. Therefore, distributors in the US who sell the item , AFTER BEING NOTIFIED become liable if they continue to market the infringing work. If they are honorable they will not want to sell pirated work in the first place. This is no different from making fake Gucci bags. Now that they have marketed this figure W.Britain who has the rights to my figures can't make this one.

Please leave your abusive manner in dialogue for your friends or relatives who will tolerate such treatment. I did not insult your copyright cries, although I have my own opinion on this matter, and the US legislation does not bother me here at all, because I am not a citizen of this state.

In general, before insulting, blaming, and labeling a thief, you, as the copyright holder, could talk to someone who borrowed the idea from your picture for their products. But for now, all these public screams, insults and emotions look like this character.


No offense. And, do not make a mountain out of a molehill (не делайте из мухи слона).

 

[Don Troiani]

Are you one who made this figure?

 

[svt]

Are you one who made this figure?

No, i did not made this sculpture, i do manual modeling.
You can always look at some of my work here or on Facebook, and even borrow some ideas from them for your pictures.

 

[CHRONOS]

Dear friends! I apologize to Don for this situation!

We talked to Don. Don allowed me to sell this circulation to pay back my costs of production of this figure. After that the figure will be laid off and will cease to be on sale.

 

[Babelfish]

Point taken, I apologize to the members here, I get a bit overheated about this.

(thumbs up!)

Now that they have marketed this figure W.Britain who has the rights to my figures can't make this one.

Why not? Surely W. Britain / you are still the copyright holder? So why couldn't they do this particular figure - assuming that they wanted to of course? (That's a genuine question by the way, I'm not trying to be "clever").

- Steve

 

[Martin64]

I remember the same copyright discussion years ago when Warriors Scale Models released excellent 120mm-figures based on paintings from Mr. Trojani. Unfortunately for me as a modeller these figures had to be withdrawn for the same reasons. The copyright holders at that time for producing figures from the paintings were ERTL (maybe they are attached to W. Britain). The toy-soldier figures they made were crap and are not suited as models. I bought the book "Trojani`s Civil War" as a reference for future nice models before all this happened. Since then I no longer see the need to buy other books from this painter as long as the only company that is allowed to produce figures based on paintings from this artist releases such a mediocre quality.
Mr.Trojani is IMHO here once again defending his copyright which is out of question but he could make more money if he would be open to the small companies in this hobby that turn his images into something that really captures the quality of his paintings. Toy soldiers are a different market. Therefore W. Britain has nothing to fear from Chronos Miniatures - Britains release of this figure will never be something anyone of us would consider to buy - most probably the same goes the other way around if someone likes to collect prepainted toy figures.
My two cents - looking back at the situation with Warriors Scale Models most probably out of the window.
Cheers, Martin

To illustrate what I am talking about
Former Warriors release (painted by ex-member Colin Fraser) and ref picture:

Britains collectibles (selling for 225 USD btw... now we all know what is expensive ):

 

[brian]

Dear friends! I apologize to Don for this situation!

We talked to Don. Don allowed me to sell this circulation to pay back my costs of production of this figure. After that the figure will be laid off and will cease to be on sale.

It's sad that it's going to be limited,as the figure is outstanding and does justice to Don's painting.I can see where Don is coming from i.e. every man and his dog would be copying his magnificent paintings if he didn't take a stand,but it means that we'll be deprived of Don's work.What a pity.

 

[brian]

Smartass What I meant was it's more like a staff than a stick and walking while holding it like this would do her wrist in.
An injury you're familiar with

Not lately Derek.I think the question is,when's a stick a staff.

 

[Babelfish]

Mr. Trojani is IMHO here once again defending his copyright which is out of question but he could make more money if he would be open to the small companies in this hobby that turn his images into something that really captures the quality of his paintings. Toy soldiers are a different market. Therefore W. Britain has nothing to fear from Chronos Miniatures - Britains release of this figure will never be something anyone of us would consider to buy - most probably the same goes the other way around if someone likes to collect prepainted toy figures

Those were my thoughts as well Martin. Britains make toy soldiers and Chronos make detailed model kits, with probably next to no overlap between the markets.

Don is of course perfectly entitled to defend against a breach of copyright as he sees fit, but (at the risk of second-guessing Don, and I might be wrong) I suspect that there's a strong element of "the principle of the thing" in that Chronos didn't approach him first for permission to do a 3D version of his 2D artwork. Because as Wayne says above, the actual negative financial impact (if any) in this case is likely to be on the "nickel & dime" level. That's how I see it anyway.

- Steve

 

[DEL]

Not lately Derek.I think the question is,when's a stick a staff.

When it grows up ............ see what I did there

 

[frog]

I like this one a lot

 

[Don Troiani]

(thumbs up!)



Why not? Surely W. Britain / you are still the copyright holder? So why couldn't they do this particular figure - assuming that they wanted to of course? (That's a genuine question by the way, I'm not trying to be "clever").

- Steve

I am the copyright holder on all of my works. Britains can do it if they want but are unlikely to do so if there is already another on the market.

 

[Don Troiani]

I remember the same copyright discussion years ago when Warriors Scale Models released excellent 120mm-figures based on paintings from Mr. Trojani. Unfortunately for me as a modeller these figures had to be withdrawn for the same reasons. The copyright holders at that time for producing figures from the paintings were ERTL (maybe they are attached to W. Britain). The toy-soldier figures they made were crap and are not suited as models. I bought the book "Trojani`s Civil War" as a reference for future nice models before all this happened. Since then I no longer see the need to buy other books from this painter as long as the only company that is allowed to produce figures based on paintings from this artist releases such a mediocre quality.
Mr.Trojani is IMHO here once again defending his copyright which is out of question but he could make more money if he would be open to the small companies in this hobby that turn his images into something that really captures the quality of his paintings. Toy soldiers are a different market. Therefore W. Britain has nothing to fear from Chronos Miniatures - Britains release of this figure will never be something anyone of us would consider to buy - most probably the same goes the other way around if someone likes to collect prepainted toy figures.
My two cents - looking back at the situation with Warriors Scale Models most probably out of the window.
Cheers, Martin

To illustrate what I am talking about
Former Warriors release (painted by ex-member Colin Fraser) and ref picture:
View attachment 341192View attachment 341193
Britains collectibles (selling for 225 USD btw... now we all know what is expensive ):
View attachment 341194View attachment 341195

It's not a question of money , it's about protection of intellectual rights.

 

[IronMike]

I'm glad you both were able to reach a mutual agreement. Well done gents.

 

[Martin64]

It's not a question of money , it's about protection of intellectual rights.

I got that , Mr. Troiani. If you sue people it is about money and if you sell the copyright to a toy soldier company that produces caricature like figures based on your images for collectors it is likewise about money. This is your right to do so.
As a modeller I still regret the current situation.
Your intellectual rights could be respected if the producers would ask you for permission in advance if they intend to use your work as a template for a figure and if you would grant this permission the number of people interested in your work would grow...I am aware that these thoughts might be of minor importance for your struggle to protect the copyrights but maybe as an artist you see what I mean if you take a close look at the figures "licensed by Troiani" and the copyright infringements we like so much. What models would you buy if you would want to have a figure that translates your art into miniatures??
After all maybe Britains does not have a problem with these scale models of your paintings as they do not target the same market??

 

[Babelfish]

Your intellectual rights could be respected if the producers would ask you for permission in advance if they intend to use your work as a template for a figure ....

And of course with suitable credit then given along the lines of "This figure is based on original artwork by Don Troiani, used with permission". Possibly also with a fee paid in recognition (but not so much that it would make release of the figure financially unviable for the company in question). Because whenever someone says "it's not about the money", you straight away know that it definitely is - at least to some degree.

- Steve

 

[Babelfish]

I also have to respectfully disagree Don with your argument that just because one company has released a particular subject, others then won't be interested in doing the same subject. Look (just for example) at all the many Supermarine Spitfire aircraft and Tiger tank models available from multiple companies on the plastic kits market. And these are directly competing companies.

Notwithstanding that our wives and non-modelling friends occasionally pull our legs about how we shut ourselves away in our man-caves to "play with toy soldiers", as has been said above there is in fact very minimal overlap between the actual "toy soldiers" market (as embodied by Britains and similar firms) and the "precision scale models" market (which we on here enjoy and that are brought to us by Chronos et al). They are two different kinds of product appealing to two different breeds of anorak.

- Steve