Oil Color Help
- Thread starter BigDaddy
- Start date
Help Support planetFigure:
Einion
A Fixture
Hi Matt, if you tell me which brands are available near you I should be able to give you the equivalent colours, if any, to these. In case you don't know, mars colours can be pretty variable so there's likely to be some difference between paints of the same name from different manufacturers - this is true of most other earths too.
FWIW I would also not consider Mars Brown to be particularly necessary, so unless there's a specific mix you want to try that uses it I wouldn't bother. Opaque red oxides like Venetian Red, Red Oxide, English Red, Mars Red etc. (especially the lighter ones) are more versatile and you can easily simulate the type of colour that Mars Brown is by just mixing them with some Burnt Umber.
Einion
FWIW I would also not consider Mars Brown to be particularly necessary, so unless there's a specific mix you want to try that uses it I wouldn't bother. Opaque red oxides like Venetian Red, Red Oxide, English Red, Mars Red etc. (especially the lighter ones) are more versatile and you can easily simulate the type of colour that Mars Brown is by just mixing them with some Burnt Umber.
Einion
BigDaddy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2005
- Messages
- 306
Einion-
The brands I have here are Windsor and Newton, Grumbacher, and W/N Winton.
Actually, I was going to experiment with a new flesh mix-
I currently use Tit. White, Burnt Sienna, Gold Ochre, Cad. Red, and Juane Brilliant. I have been substituting and using Brown Madder Alizarin for the Burnt sienna. I use Naples yellow and white for highlights.
I was reading a thread here on PF, and thought I would try a new mix.
Matt
The brands I have here are Windsor and Newton, Grumbacher, and W/N Winton.
Actually, I was going to experiment with a new flesh mix-
I currently use Tit. White, Burnt Sienna, Gold Ochre, Cad. Red, and Juane Brilliant. I have been substituting and using Brown Madder Alizarin for the Burnt sienna. I use Naples yellow and white for highlights.
I was reading a thread here on PF, and thought I would try a new mix.
Matt
Pete_H
A Fixture
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2003
- Messages
- 1,140
Matt,
I pretty much use the same fleshtone mix that you do, but sometimes I replace the burnt sienna with the mars brown. The benefit is twofold: opacity and I avoid the possible "pumpkinhead look" that could happen with burnt sienna. However, mars brown - as well as all the mars colors - are very strong colors. Hence, a little will go a long way.
The Art Store on India Street - now known as "Blick Art Supplies" - carries all the mars colors by W/N, with one exception: mars red by Sennelier. They've also got a big sale going on right now, which is why I'll be swinging by later this week (perhaps Wednesday).
I pretty much use the same fleshtone mix that you do, but sometimes I replace the burnt sienna with the mars brown. The benefit is twofold: opacity and I avoid the possible "pumpkinhead look" that could happen with burnt sienna. However, mars brown - as well as all the mars colors - are very strong colors. Hence, a little will go a long way.
The Art Store on India Street - now known as "Blick Art Supplies" - carries all the mars colors by W/N, with one exception: mars red by Sennelier. They've also got a big sale going on right now, which is why I'll be swinging by later this week (perhaps Wednesday).
Einion
A Fixture
Hi Matt, well Winsor & Newton artists' oils and Grumbacher Pre-Tested are both decent quality so either is fine, although I'm sure where you are Grumbacher will be cheaper. With cheap colours like earths an economy range like Winton is often perfectly acceptable but you'll probably need to soak out excess oil from them if you want to maintain matt drying.
With regard to the two mars colours, Mars Brown was discontinued by W&N in the last revamp of the range because it can be mixed by the artist (Gold Ochre, Venetian Red, Mars Black).
You already have Gold Ochre, this should be very similar to the average Mars Yellow, W&N discontinued it for this very reason. Technically they are just two names for the same colour!
...
Fleshtones are complex but they're not hard to mix and the key is simplicity. The fewer colours you use for each basic shade the easier it is to achieve consistent results. The paints you list amount to two yellows, an orange and a red; when you put it in those terms it shows it's a bit redundant
the simplest flesh mixes are based on a yellow, a red and blue (or black); all fleshtones are within the triangle formed by these three hues, plus white of course.
If you don't use black or blue as a neutraliser one needs to use earths of some kind, as many modellers do, instead of true yellows/reds in order to keep the mix from being too high in chroma (too 'bright'). Using earths, particularly the umbers but any true brown, often results in mixes looking 'muddy' unless you're very careful, for this reason most portrait painters avoid using them except in their darks. And incidentally, you can't substitute an orange (like Burnt Sienna) for the yellow and red because you need to vary their proportions.
If you have Cerulean Blue here is the basic palette I would advise: Titanium White, Yellow Ochre (or Gold Ochre), Cadmium Red Light (medium is okay if you don't have the light) and a touch of Cerulean Blue. Variations of these colours will give you everything from a light highlight through to a medium shadow colour without the addition of anything else.
The basic light highlight colour is mostly Titanium White, some Yellow Ochre and a touch of Cadmium Red Light.
For a basic midtone, the same amount of Yellow Ochre, a touch less Titanium White, a little more Cadmium Red Light and dot of Cerulean Blue. An intermediary can be made by simply mixing this with the highlight, or you just blend between them if you like to work wet-on-wet.
I mix my medium shadow colours by blending the Cerulean with Yellow Ochre to the darkest green they'll make, and then mixing in Cad Red Light until it's a dull brown. This colour won't make muddy mixes if it gets into your midtone, as you might if it included Burnt Umber for example.
For the darkest shadows I begin with the basic shadow mix and add in a variety of other colours, but for simplicity you can limit yourself to a little Burnt Umber and black (I use Mars Black preferably because it's most opaque but any black will do).
Einion
With regard to the two mars colours, Mars Brown was discontinued by W&N in the last revamp of the range because it can be mixed by the artist (Gold Ochre, Venetian Red, Mars Black).
You already have Gold Ochre, this should be very similar to the average Mars Yellow, W&N discontinued it for this very reason. Technically they are just two names for the same colour!
...
Fleshtones are complex but they're not hard to mix and the key is simplicity. The fewer colours you use for each basic shade the easier it is to achieve consistent results. The paints you list amount to two yellows, an orange and a red; when you put it in those terms it shows it's a bit redundant
the simplest flesh mixes are based on a yellow, a red and blue (or black); all fleshtones are within the triangle formed by these three hues, plus white of course.If you don't use black or blue as a neutraliser one needs to use earths of some kind, as many modellers do, instead of true yellows/reds in order to keep the mix from being too high in chroma (too 'bright'). Using earths, particularly the umbers but any true brown, often results in mixes looking 'muddy' unless you're very careful, for this reason most portrait painters avoid using them except in their darks. And incidentally, you can't substitute an orange (like Burnt Sienna) for the yellow and red because you need to vary their proportions.
If you have Cerulean Blue here is the basic palette I would advise: Titanium White, Yellow Ochre (or Gold Ochre), Cadmium Red Light (medium is okay if you don't have the light) and a touch of Cerulean Blue. Variations of these colours will give you everything from a light highlight through to a medium shadow colour without the addition of anything else.
The basic light highlight colour is mostly Titanium White, some Yellow Ochre and a touch of Cadmium Red Light.
For a basic midtone, the same amount of Yellow Ochre, a touch less Titanium White, a little more Cadmium Red Light and dot of Cerulean Blue. An intermediary can be made by simply mixing this with the highlight, or you just blend between them if you like to work wet-on-wet.
I mix my medium shadow colours by blending the Cerulean with Yellow Ochre to the darkest green they'll make, and then mixing in Cad Red Light until it's a dull brown. This colour won't make muddy mixes if it gets into your midtone, as you might if it included Burnt Umber for example.
For the darkest shadows I begin with the basic shadow mix and add in a variety of other colours, but for simplicity you can limit yourself to a little Burnt Umber and black (I use Mars Black preferably because it's most opaque but any black will do).
Einion
BigDaddy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2005
- Messages
- 306
WOW!
What a neat summary of the flesh tones. I never had anyone explain the colors that way- very helpful.
I will experiment and see what I come up with- I do have cerulean blue. THANKS
Pete- thanks for the info- I will let you know if I need anything. I would like to get down to the store this week too---
Matt
What a neat summary of the flesh tones. I never had anyone explain the colors that way- very helpful.
I will experiment and see what I come up with- I do have cerulean blue. THANKS
Pete- thanks for the info- I will let you know if I need anything. I would like to get down to the store this week too---
Matt
