Older Figures

[Ray Stout]

I attended Bolton's I.P.M.S. show last Sunday, and, among the Trade stands, was a stall where a recently deceased modeller,s Gray Army was being sold off. Looking at some of the older figures, like Realmodels, and Barton, which, at the time we thought were pretty good quality, I began to realise just how good a painter you had to be to achieve the standards they did, with what now would be not much more than an average quality casting. Sure ,there were exceptions, like Ray Lamb, and Richard Almond, but 90% of the rest, probably wouldn't make it to market, without the considerable painting skills that made an average cast look great. Comments please. Ray

 

[custer760]

I agree with you 100pro. Ray but....I still remember pressing my nose against the Windows of the Leas Cliff Hall on a Friday night before Euro,trying to catch a glimpse of the latest releases of the eighties and,although the quality wasnt as good as today (Poste Militaire is an exception) I still enjoyed the figgies (We didnt know any Better) I still enjoy seeing the old kits at Shows or E Bay and recently bought the 90mm Barton mounted Frederick the Great to paint up again,as I remember the fun I had painting it many moons ago for my father in law.
We certainly werent as spoilt and fussy in the good old days!!! :-P
Regards
Pete

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

Many of the old kits stand up against the modern castings, I have had figures by many of todays current era of producers that have been quite dire and I am not going to name names, inevitably they get sold off or given away to modellers who are happy to spend hours trying to bring a casting up to standard.

Remember also that many of the older kits are of subjects that have never been repeated and possibly never will be...........Like you Pete I have Frederick. Von Zietan and Seydlitz. Subjects that are unlikely to be repeated, and hope to mount them all side by side one day. I also have the Neopolitan Velite and Carabinier Trumpeter among other Bartons which still stand the test of time.

Probably also worth mentioning that a 90mm mounted by PM, Barton, Almond can usually be bought for £50-100, try getting an Andrea or Pegaso for that!

 

[Chrisr]

I've been looking for the Barton's grenadier with upheld arms, one holding his bearskin and the other his musket. Can't find one anywhere.

 

[waterloo1815]

Chrisr - Keep an eye on Evil Bay US - one pops up every now & then - Still commands a fair price - since I remember when it was released it retailed for 27.00. In my many years of collecting & painting I have bought this kit 3 times - the one I have now is staying where it is - in the GGA!! To Ray - YES - we are spoiled now a days with the quality that is available to us but for me when painting a Barton, Realmodels, Superior it brings me back to my youth !! Guess I'm getting old. And lets not forget some of those figures were considered "top of the line" - didn't Richard Almond sculpt for Barton & Cermonial Studios when he first started ?? Dave Grieve sculpted for Real models back in the day and some of his figures still holds up today!! Think about it - which was more comfortable & easier to drive a 1972 Chevrolet or a 2014 Cheverolet?? We are spoiled in more ways than you can think of!! NOT trying to start a war - just my 2 cents worth!! Dave

 

[skeeterbuck]

I really enjoy doing the David Grieve 65mm figures. I think that the size is just about perfect for me. Big enough to add and paint more detail , but no some much bigger than 54mm. I recently finished the Naval Brigade Officer (Sudan) and he turned out rather fine. I found him on ebay and he was already painted. I had to break loose the old epoxy joints, strip the paint and make some minor repairs to the tip of his pointing finger and the revolver barrel. I also drilled out the barrel and the cylinders for a little additional detail. But considering I only paid $10, it was well worth my effort to my was of thinking.

I also do some 54mm New Hope figures and some of these are not the best quality compared to currently available kits. They did make several Boer war figures and figures from this era are few and far between. At least they're better than nothing.

 

[Helm]

Think a lot of the old Hinchcliffe stand the test of time as well, while not great by todays standards for sheer range you'd be hard put to beat DEK/All The Queens Men, I'd dearly love to pick up one of the drum horses for my missus as a gift.
Steve

 

[Tubby-Nuts2]

Steve, .. I have a set of Ray Lambs, 75mm 'French Line Infantry', Plus a, 1/72nd ? Larrey four horse drawn ambulance! by Hinchliffe! As nice as they were at the time I doubt there is interest in them now. Due to the standard of todays casts! ..

 

[Helm]

I have the Hinchcliffe Gothic Knight though and I'd put that against anything today Mark it just depends on what you have I guess
Steve

 

[blaster]

Interesting thread. It depends on what the individual defines as a great sculpt. I have a very strong preference for some older kits and at the same time dislike a lot of new kits. This is despite the obvious improvement in casting technology.

Rgds Victor

 

[ellie]

Hi everyone still love Poste Mil, barton & almound. they have stood the test of time and still stand up well in todays market. Barton did some great 7YW stuff which I agree may never be done again. I know a few years ago Kittney & co released some of the barton range a shame they are not on the market and I'm sure the mounted kits would do well.

Ian

 

[Babelfish]

Many of the old kits stand up against the modern castings, I have had figures by many of todays current era of producers that have been quite dire and I am not going to name names, inevitably they get sold off or given away to modellers who are happy to spend hours trying to bring a casting up to standard.

Claude, I'd agree with that if you are talking about casting as opposed to sculpting. For my money though, the general quality of sculpting nowadays is light years ahead of what it was 20 or 30 years ago.

However, any figure is only as good as the casting, and I've had some absolutely stunning modern sculpts that have been let down by really poor casting.

My absolute favourites from the "old days" are the David Grieve Classic 100 series. Things of beauty in terms of both sculpting and casting. So much so that almost seems a shame to put glue and paint on them.

- Steve

 

[yellowcat]

I have asked myself so many times that what if the Pegaso figures are casted by Poste Militaire it will have a completely different end product.

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

I have to disagree Steve (Babelfish) I've seen some modern sculpts that were very poor proportionally, particularly heads that are way out of scale with bodies. Both now and 30 years ago there are good and bad.

 

[Gra30]

The 100 series I have by David are in resin and David himself has said if it were today he would be doing this. My only hurdle has been due to the engineering of the master I have had to retain some pieces in metal, ie swords with hands attached etc. Unfortunately the metal casting did give a surface texture which isn't on the resin casts, but I agree his casts were of excellent quality. I have also seen the lead disease on some pieces.
I still cast his 90mm figures in metal (available for £38 incl postage but I have had lots of requests to do the set of 5 in resin which I will at some point.
As mentioned I think a quality sculpt, no matter how old, when combined with modern practises done properly will give a quality piece. Hopefully standing the test of time and still finding a place with the painter.
Here is a resin cast off David's master

 

[Claude Portsmouth]

Until you physically showed me one of David's pieces cast in both Resin and Metal Graham I wouldn't have believed how much sharper the figure was in resin. I think it is a tribute to David's sculpting that they stand the test of time. Does the use of resin make casting easier? for example some of Carls recent dynamic busts would they cast as easily in White Metal?

Claude

 

[peedee]

Well Ray, you 3 am poster you...this is mischevious, from a man who told me, like a 5 year old at Bolton "-'ve just got a Lassett figure and it's older than me".!!!!!!
Hahaha.
On the same day I bought (8.30AM to be fair) a mix of figures old and new and wanted to buy more from the same clearance table.
BUT as has been said when we compare like with like it's a different question.
If I offered you a set of tiny troopers figures, I know you'd snatch my hand off, (I would too).
There are many figures we all wanted "back in the day" but didn't, and when they come up at a price we look and see they are not what we remembered.
The style and pose of the older figure is more static than the more dynamic style of today,
but those same guys if here today would probably have evolved their style too.
It's like saying pele was good, but not as good as today's footballers.
Well he'd train and be influenced by modern diets in the same way as modern players, and would be just a different player today.
I say vive la difference and if the memory of an old relesed kit makes you smile, buy it anyway and paint it.
It needs love and a new appreciative home.
But boy oh boy are we lucky with what's here now, you are so right there.
Paul

 

[Ray Stout]

Cheers Paul, the main point I wanted to get across, was how the quality of a good paint job could "elevate" some of those figures to a superb status. Then, a good painter could take an average figure, and turn it into a masterpiece, where as these days, it's so much easier to do a good paint job because of the huge choice of paints, and better quality castings that are available now. I'm not criticising to-days painters, just found a new and more admiration for the likes of the painters of those times. As for the Boer figure, yes, it's paint job looks more like a "Toy Soldier" BUT I'm going to keep it that way, just to remind me of how far the Hobby has progressed. regards, Ray

 

[Ray Stout]

I wonder what Pele would be like with modern boots, and footballs that didn't weigh a ton when wet!!!!!!

 

[peedee]

Good man not repainting your lasset figutr.
I have an old Hinton Hunt figure, same thinking.
Ref pele: Exactly, or Jackie Milburn, Tommy Lawton,
Dixie Dean, Tom Finney, Stanley Matthews.
It's been said of them all.
Insert now Pat Bird, Norman Newton, Alan Caton,
And they would still be at the forefront if this was their time.