Over the top..Carl Reid

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Wayneb

A Fixture
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
3,103
Location
HUDSON,OHIO....U.S.A.
Hello guys,
I guess the reference category is no longer.....So I will ask the question here.
Recently purchased a bust done by Carl Reid...Over the top"..Capt 2/5th Bn....Gloucestershire Regiment..61st division...1916.
I bought the piece for the sculpt; but have no idea what the hell is going on with the yellow patches;..and most of all; who wears a ''TIE'' tight going into battle.
Sorry for my ignorance on this subject; but sure you guys will enlighten me.......Regards......Wayne
 
Wayne you are talking or asking about a time when British society worked on very straight lines. There was no such thing as a law for the rich and a law for the poor, just a law for the poor.
Life in the trenches was completely different for officers than from other ranks! Officers would have a batman who looked after him, making sure his equipment, uniform etc was up to scratch. Other ranks looked after themselves. Officer would eat at table in a nearby house or Regt. Officers tent, some regt. even had the trophies and silver with them to ensure things were done properly. Other ranks had no such problems.
This was no so in every case but one would not, nor could not appear in front of the "men" without ones tie now would one!
Not so now where everyone wears the same. We were always told to look for the guy with a pistol or a radio and shoot him. Now everyone carries a rifle I believe its the same in your army.
Yellow patches could be a divisional or regimental thing, some of the WW1 vets will explain them for you. Very interesting time to research.

Don
 
I believe the 61st were a territorial battalion and if that's the case the yellow flash signifies the seniority in the order the formation was raised. White was worn by the most senior, then red, yellow, green, brown and blue. Someone may know better than me, I only know about them because I've previously read about the battle of Fromelles. It would make sense though as the Officer is from the 2/5.

In this case the tie probably signifies the fact that the division was put into battle on the Somme in 1916 at Fromelles (an action which was an almost unqualified disaster), fresh from being reassembled and designated, but officers did wear ties in the trenches..I guess you have to remember that a lot of Victorian values in the British Army were still persisting at this time and dress regulations were very formal. Though later in the war more practical fighting 'wear' was devised there was no specialist uniform for fighting vs for standing on parade in the same way there is now. Although not actually in battle you can see Officers in uniform in various shots of the trenches.

regw1g.jpg



This is an interesting analysis of the battle at Fromelles, if you are interested.

http://clevelode-battletours.com/wp...-Division-in-WW1-UNIVERSITY-OF-BIRMINGHAM.pdf
 
Thanks Don and Cap,
This info is truly appreciated;..Cap..have read the whole thing;..very interesting.
Wish I had some color pics for painting so I can hopefuly get it right.
Let me say this though;............This is a very nice sculpt.

Best Regards..............Wayne
 
No problem.

I think its an amazing period of history and for the military.

There are some nice painted models at the home of Tommy's War miniatures its worth taking a look at

http://www.tommyswar.com/

And some interesting Khaki painting experiments in this thread here

http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=64997

There are some pretty good pictures online, somewhere good to look are militaria sites selling WW1 uniforms (like the one below) and there are some good Osprey books as well.

There were quite a lot of colour variations in the uniforms and indeed the shirts the Officers wore (Pat Barker references the well told anecdote about Officers being able to tell the class of other Officers by the darker khaki on their shirts in her book Regeneration) for example, through wear and tear and Officers often having their uniforms tailored in England rather than being issued like the uniforms of other ranks.

WW1%20BRITISH%20ESSEX%20REGIMENT%20LEFTENANTS%20UNIFORM%20WITH%20SAM%20BROWN%20BELT%20HOLSTER%20AND%20PISTOL%20LANYARD.jpg


These are French but they are fascinating..WW1 photos in colour (probably hand tinted, but amazing to see from this era really).

http://www.worldwaronecolorphotos.com/

Although small models this site has some painting tips on WW1 in 20mm.

http://sidneyroundwood.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/painting-british-infantry-part-4-and.html
 
Be careful with the khaki as WWI British khaki was a browner/yellower colour than that used in later conflicts. you don't want to go too green.

If you need insignia help I suggest you join and search the Great War Forum. They have a uniforms and insignia section. They are also extremely knowldeable, quick and generous especially with newbies. Perhaps this will get you bit by the Great War bug as I was. Prior to last year I thought it an uninteresting and rather stupid war fought by fellows with no dress sense. How wrong I was !

Colin
 
Thanks very much guys for all the pics and reference sources.
As you said;..and I can tell from the pics that there is quite a bit of variation in the khaki colour.If you check out the box art "Over the Top" ( www.ModelCellar.com) the uniform and helmet seems to lean more towards green.So I will continue my research which is becoming very interesting.
Much thanks again for all your help.........Wayne
 
Thanks very much guys for all the pics and reference sources.
As you said;..and I can tell from the pics that there is quite a bit of variation in the khaki colour.If you check out the box art "Over the Top" ( www.ModelCellar.com) the uniform and helmet seems to lean more towards green.So I will continue my research which is becoming very interesting.
Much thanks again for all your help.........Wayne

I think this is the same question as asking yourself: what is the color green of grass.

Marc
 
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