WIP Critique Pegaso Roaming Knight
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kathrynloch
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Thank you so much, Marcel! I appreciate your kind words.
We're just plugging away over here.
I worked on the cloak some more today. I don't know why I did this but on the spur of the moment, I decided to highlight one more color but instead of going lighter, I went redder. lol! Most of the time when I pull something like this, it blows up in my face and I end up kicking myself while I'm standing over the sink with the figure, old toothbrush in hand, having just pulled it out of a good long soak in my Dawn Power Dissolver and Ziplock back stripping solution.
I got another new color out - my Colonial Red pigment and carefully applied it to the highest folds of the cloak. I have to admit I liked this color immediately on application, even though I knew the sealer would change it, and you never quite know what it's going to change to. It doesn't really have much orange in it and it's definitely not burnt sienna. It's a really nice red without being RED. Ya know?
Then I sealed lightly and waited for it to dry.
The results are quite interesting. I did a panel of photos. This pictures are simply changes in angle and lighting. I left my camera on the same setting while taking them. All I did was move the mini or the camera to a different position with each photo. Then, I pulled them into my editing software. All I did there was crop, resize, and on some of them I did a very low Texture Preserving Smooth correction to offset camera noise since I had it set on Super Macro.
When I take work table pics, I have my desktop OttLight and I also have a ceiling fan over head with Reveal Blubs. So I set my camera to a custom white balance where I point it at my subject, click the shutter, and it adjusts the white balance to the shooting conditions. After that, like I said, all I did was move the mini and the camera slightly each shot.
I thought the results were intriguing and fun.
But now I do have a concern. I was so happy with the leather tack I'd managed to achieve on the horse with acrylics. But I think the cloak far outshines the tack and the two leathers together just make the entire thing fade into each other. The horse is nice and contrasty but only on the gray end of the spectrum.
The box has the tack red, I did some research and medieval tanning and dying mainly went with black, brown, red, green, and blue. There are other colors but they were mostly for indoor use and quite a few colors faded badly when exposed to sunlight or weather.
I really thing I need to change the tack. But to what? I really don't want red - I try to avoid box colors (the closest I got was the knight's red studded gambeson). Black will just blend in with the horse. Brown as we see has little contrast - I might be able to darken or lighten it...but I'm not sure. I detest green leather - maybe it's the old Robin Hood flashback thing...I'm not sure but I've never liked it.
That leaves blue. I do like blue...but on the other hand the horse has one blue eye, I don't want it to look corny...like he's all matchy matchy or something.
But I found this cool little pdf on medieval leather tanning
http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/leather.pdf
It's a nice reference. I wonder if I could post it in the reference section. While it doesn't have pictures, the descriptions are fantastic. And I got a good idea of what vegetable tanned period blue dyed leather would look like, especially if it's on the worn side and has lost quite a bit of its luster.
I'm visualizing something that starts off like this:
Then would be aged, faded and worn. It wouldn't be cracked because it would be well oiled and tended too but it would have lost a lot of luster.
Now exactly what color it would end up being after all that. I don't know...and would blue end up blending into the horse as well?
hmmmm...gotta put the ole thinking cap on.
Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I'm all ears.
ETA: Well, I just painted some tiny spots as test colors in hard to see areas. Unfortunately it looks like the red is winning, it does work with the brown and especially the red highlights I now have in the cloak. So much for the box art.
But I haven't made a decision yet, so like I said, any ideas, I'm happy to listen.
We're just plugging away over here.
I worked on the cloak some more today. I don't know why I did this but on the spur of the moment, I decided to highlight one more color but instead of going lighter, I went redder. lol! Most of the time when I pull something like this, it blows up in my face and I end up kicking myself while I'm standing over the sink with the figure, old toothbrush in hand, having just pulled it out of a good long soak in my Dawn Power Dissolver and Ziplock back stripping solution.
I got another new color out - my Colonial Red pigment and carefully applied it to the highest folds of the cloak. I have to admit I liked this color immediately on application, even though I knew the sealer would change it, and you never quite know what it's going to change to. It doesn't really have much orange in it and it's definitely not burnt sienna. It's a really nice red without being RED. Ya know?
Then I sealed lightly and waited for it to dry.
The results are quite interesting. I did a panel of photos. This pictures are simply changes in angle and lighting. I left my camera on the same setting while taking them. All I did was move the mini or the camera to a different position with each photo. Then, I pulled them into my editing software. All I did there was crop, resize, and on some of them I did a very low Texture Preserving Smooth correction to offset camera noise since I had it set on Super Macro.
When I take work table pics, I have my desktop OttLight and I also have a ceiling fan over head with Reveal Blubs. So I set my camera to a custom white balance where I point it at my subject, click the shutter, and it adjusts the white balance to the shooting conditions. After that, like I said, all I did was move the mini and the camera slightly each shot.
I thought the results were intriguing and fun.
But now I do have a concern. I was so happy with the leather tack I'd managed to achieve on the horse with acrylics. But I think the cloak far outshines the tack and the two leathers together just make the entire thing fade into each other. The horse is nice and contrasty but only on the gray end of the spectrum.
The box has the tack red, I did some research and medieval tanning and dying mainly went with black, brown, red, green, and blue. There are other colors but they were mostly for indoor use and quite a few colors faded badly when exposed to sunlight or weather.
I really thing I need to change the tack. But to what? I really don't want red - I try to avoid box colors (the closest I got was the knight's red studded gambeson). Black will just blend in with the horse. Brown as we see has little contrast - I might be able to darken or lighten it...but I'm not sure. I detest green leather - maybe it's the old Robin Hood flashback thing...I'm not sure but I've never liked it.
That leaves blue. I do like blue...but on the other hand the horse has one blue eye, I don't want it to look corny...like he's all matchy matchy or something.
But I found this cool little pdf on medieval leather tanning
http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/leather.pdf
It's a nice reference. I wonder if I could post it in the reference section. While it doesn't have pictures, the descriptions are fantastic. And I got a good idea of what vegetable tanned period blue dyed leather would look like, especially if it's on the worn side and has lost quite a bit of its luster.
I'm visualizing something that starts off like this:
Then would be aged, faded and worn. It wouldn't be cracked because it would be well oiled and tended too but it would have lost a lot of luster.
Now exactly what color it would end up being after all that. I don't know...and would blue end up blending into the horse as well?
hmmmm...gotta put the ole thinking cap on.
Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I'm all ears.
ETA: Well, I just painted some tiny spots as test colors in hard to see areas. Unfortunately it looks like the red is winning, it does work with the brown and especially the red highlights I now have in the cloak. So much for the box art.
But I haven't made a decision yet, so like I said, any ideas, I'm happy to listen.
sam b
A Fixture
well done on such an in depth sbs , I’m very impressed
sam
sam
marius'mules
Well-Known Member
The cloak is looking good.
kathrynloch
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 265
Thank you very much Sam. An SBS isn't the easiest thing to write but working through the WIP thread makes it much better. Hopefully when I finish the thread, I can put together a nice little article.
I visited your new blog. OMG! The Stalingrad bust is phenomenal! Absolutely amazing work! Good luck in the blogosphere.
Thank you Steve! I just put one last light coat of sealer on it. It should be done except for some clean up work on the edges. I really wish I could do some freehand on that. If I get lucky and the hand tremors aren't so bad, I may give it a shot.....yeah and I may win the lottery too.
Thank you both for your kind words.
And we're not done - this WIP/SBS might kill me yet. lol!
The funny thing? For all of my whining about red tack...once I got the design in my head and painted it. I didn't want to destroy it. I sat there and stared at it for the longest time. I actually like it, even tho without dullcote, because of the inks, it looks kinda like patent leather or something. haha.
But all of a sudden I'm having a hard time putting stuff on it to make it look bad.
So instead of distressing the "leather" tack - I mucked around in photobucket's editing tools.
Bad Karrie! Back to work!
About an hour ago, I did start the tack. I'm not sue if it's gonna go where I want it to go...but we're definitely going somewhere.
Whoa horsie!
When I says whoas, I's mean WHOAS!
kathrynloch
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 265
We might just have to shoot this horse
Well I have some bad news. Yesterday, my horse went from this:
To this - not the paint - the shape of the face.
The paint is me scraping it off so I can try to fix this...but honestly I don't know if I can.
I had no idea how it happened. I took those pictures of the red tack earlier and he was fine!
All of a sudden it looks like the right side of his face is about ready to slide off to the ground.
God he looks mad at me.
He didn't fall, besides, if he had hit the ground the mane would have broken. He has fallen over...nothing major...on the table - I don't know maybe even with the towel folded up his own weight squished his face?
These were the thoughts spinning through my head. I about drove myself nuts trying to figure out what happened and how he managed to get a dent in his face with no other damage.
Plus, I needed to figure out how to fix it.
I can sculpt over it....I've done stuff like this on my model horses but normally I cut the yukky part off and sculpt the foundation. This I can't cut off.
One of my friends offered the suggestion of heat causing the problem. The only source of heat I have on my table is my OttLight. But the base is the only thing that gets hot and it's sort of a dome shape. It has a half circle out-panel for the switch and it adds stability to the lamp. But that part doesn't get hot.
I pondered it staring at the lamp for awhile. My brain finally dug up this dusty old file called SPACIAL RELATIONSHIPS.
And I realized what probably happened.
If he was like this on the switch panel. His mane is awful close to the dome part that gets hot.
Metal conducts heat quite nicely. I work on top of a folded towel because I have to lay my models on their sides. If he happened to get moved so that just his head was on that switch panel and the rest of his body on the towel, I probably wouldn't have even noticed - which explains why I didn't notice.
The first two pics seem to be perfect fit, this last pic isn't but if I push him forward just a little then it is. I was having a very hard time moving the lamp and everything else on my disaster of a table and take the pics.
Anyways, I think this might be it. The body was still on the towel, the head somehow got onto this switch panel, and the heat generated from the base of the lamp conducted through the metal. The horse is heavy so he wouldn't have to get very warm, it was probably just enough to lower the metal's resistance and his own weight caved in the face just a little.
This is the only thing I can come up with that comes close to explaining it without damage to the mane and forelock and to any other part of his body.
So I went to work trying to fix it. I've resculpted horses here and there and repaired damages. If this had been one of my resin models. I would have carved out the eye area and started over by building in the skull, eye socket and putting in the eyeball then building the lid and the outside of the orb around it.
Unfortuantely with the metal, I don't have the tools to do that. Maybe if I took my dremel to it...but the lack of control would be a serious issue.
I scored the metal and even sanded it to make it rough and first tried my Apoxie Clay which is a bit firmer than Apoxie Sculpt and dries faster. While I came close it wouldn't stay put as it dried, it would pop off.
I actually had a bit better luck using my carbide scraper to reshape it.
But not much better luck.
I need to reshape the eyeball but that's going to be some tough doing.
These are the tips I've been using (I love this thing - one of the best tools for miniatures or model horses around). I'm going to try to shave the eye down with the knife tip - the one farthest on the left.
For the actual reshaping this is the tip that's been most effective. But it's still difficult and I still have a long way to go.
If I had a model horse that matched the head size, I'd chop it off and swap out the two. Unfortunately while several are close, none really fit.
I'd honestly be better off purchasing another kit and starting over but I don't have the money right now. Most folks want $195 for this model and that doesn't include shipping. Michigan Toy will give me a discount down to $165 but I have to wait 2-3 weeks. If I order direct from Pegaso, that seems to be the cheapest even though the Euro is outperforming the Dollar it would only be about $145 and that price includes the shipping.
But I'll have to wait...unless someone here might have one for sale for a lower price. I'll try throwing a request up.
If I can't find another kit, I'll probably put this one on hold and switch to a different project until I figure out what to do.
Oh well, I gave it a hell of a shot.
Well I have some bad news. Yesterday, my horse went from this:
To this - not the paint - the shape of the face.
The paint is me scraping it off so I can try to fix this...but honestly I don't know if I can.
I had no idea how it happened. I took those pictures of the red tack earlier and he was fine!
All of a sudden it looks like the right side of his face is about ready to slide off to the ground.
God he looks mad at me.
He didn't fall, besides, if he had hit the ground the mane would have broken. He has fallen over...nothing major...on the table - I don't know maybe even with the towel folded up his own weight squished his face?
These were the thoughts spinning through my head. I about drove myself nuts trying to figure out what happened and how he managed to get a dent in his face with no other damage.
Plus, I needed to figure out how to fix it.
I can sculpt over it....I've done stuff like this on my model horses but normally I cut the yukky part off and sculpt the foundation. This I can't cut off.
One of my friends offered the suggestion of heat causing the problem. The only source of heat I have on my table is my OttLight. But the base is the only thing that gets hot and it's sort of a dome shape. It has a half circle out-panel for the switch and it adds stability to the lamp. But that part doesn't get hot.
I pondered it staring at the lamp for awhile. My brain finally dug up this dusty old file called SPACIAL RELATIONSHIPS.
And I realized what probably happened.
If he was like this on the switch panel. His mane is awful close to the dome part that gets hot.
Metal conducts heat quite nicely. I work on top of a folded towel because I have to lay my models on their sides. If he happened to get moved so that just his head was on that switch panel and the rest of his body on the towel, I probably wouldn't have even noticed - which explains why I didn't notice.
The first two pics seem to be perfect fit, this last pic isn't but if I push him forward just a little then it is. I was having a very hard time moving the lamp and everything else on my disaster of a table and take the pics.
Anyways, I think this might be it. The body was still on the towel, the head somehow got onto this switch panel, and the heat generated from the base of the lamp conducted through the metal. The horse is heavy so he wouldn't have to get very warm, it was probably just enough to lower the metal's resistance and his own weight caved in the face just a little.
This is the only thing I can come up with that comes close to explaining it without damage to the mane and forelock and to any other part of his body.
So I went to work trying to fix it. I've resculpted horses here and there and repaired damages. If this had been one of my resin models. I would have carved out the eye area and started over by building in the skull, eye socket and putting in the eyeball then building the lid and the outside of the orb around it.
Unfortuantely with the metal, I don't have the tools to do that. Maybe if I took my dremel to it...but the lack of control would be a serious issue.
I scored the metal and even sanded it to make it rough and first tried my Apoxie Clay which is a bit firmer than Apoxie Sculpt and dries faster. While I came close it wouldn't stay put as it dried, it would pop off.
I actually had a bit better luck using my carbide scraper to reshape it.
But not much better luck.
I need to reshape the eyeball but that's going to be some tough doing.
These are the tips I've been using (I love this thing - one of the best tools for miniatures or model horses around). I'm going to try to shave the eye down with the knife tip - the one farthest on the left.
For the actual reshaping this is the tip that's been most effective. But it's still difficult and I still have a long way to go.
If I had a model horse that matched the head size, I'd chop it off and swap out the two. Unfortunately while several are close, none really fit.
I'd honestly be better off purchasing another kit and starting over but I don't have the money right now. Most folks want $195 for this model and that doesn't include shipping. Michigan Toy will give me a discount down to $165 but I have to wait 2-3 weeks. If I order direct from Pegaso, that seems to be the cheapest even though the Euro is outperforming the Dollar it would only be about $145 and that price includes the shipping.
But I'll have to wait...unless someone here might have one for sale for a lower price. I'll try throwing a request up.
If I can't find another kit, I'll probably put this one on hold and switch to a different project until I figure out what to do.
Oh well, I gave it a hell of a shot.
Tecumsea
PlanetFigure Supporter
HI Karrie,
Really disappointed for you-this whole project was going so well and it is so interesting seeing a different approach to figure painting. Why not try resculpting the area using Milliput or some other modelling clay, worth a shot before going to the extreme of buying a new kit....Keith
Really disappointed for you-this whole project was going so well and it is so interesting seeing a different approach to figure painting. Why not try resculpting the area using Milliput or some other modelling clay, worth a shot before going to the extreme of buying a new kit....Keith
Andrew Craft
A Fixture
Not sure if it's any help but Dmitri at Soga miniatures has them for $115 U.S. they normally have good shipping costs too.
Andrew
Andrew
gordy
A Fixture
Wow, that's quite a mischance! Sorry to hear the terrible news
kathrynloch
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 265
I tried earlier with Apoxie Clay - has abilities to hold better detail than Apoxie Sculpt but it didn't want to stick even though I scored the metal and roughed it up with sanding. I could give it another shot tho.
Fantastic Andrew! Thank you for the reference! I see their ad at the top of the page right now. I'll check it out!
Wow, that's quite a mischance! Sorry to hear the terrible news
Thanks Gordy. I'm definitely bummed over the whole thing. But I haven't quite given up yet. If I have to start a new one, I'll start a new one.
In speaking with a friend on CMON the softness of the metal sounds a bit too much. There are certain places on his face I can actually push in with my fingers. I dropped an email inquiry to Pegaso asking if there was any history of unusually soft metal for this piece. I figured it doesn't hurt to ask.
I was able to manipulate the eye a bit more last night. If I can get it to cooperate, maybe I can save it and use Apoxie just for the eyelids.
We'll see and I'll let y'all know how it goes.
Thanks again everyone!
Cheers,
Karrie
gordy
A Fixture
Wow, I've never heard of that happening before, that's certainly concerning!
Are any of the non-horse pieces exhibiting this softness effect ?
kathrynloch
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 265
I haven't checked the knight closely yet but nothing I've seen thus far has indicated anything amiss with non-horse. Even the horse's body seems to be fine, it's just the face giving me an issue.
A friend suggested it might be a bad alloy mix in that one part. In this regard it sounds a bit like resin, a bad mix can result in soft spots or leaking sometimes.
I have to admit, I'm a bit hesitant to go poking and prodding too much. lol! I did manage to get a layer of apoxie on his eye socket. When I get home I should be able to sand it down and start building other layers. Keep your fingers crossed!
Cheers,
karrie
kathrynloch
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 265
Wow! The people at Pegaso rock! I had emailed them asking about the horse's head but in the meanwhile debated on what to do. I originally tried to order another kit through their website but it glitched and didn't go through, so I had to email them about that as well.
Well the gentleman who responded to my questions realized they were connected and instead of having me order a whole new kit has offered to send me a replacement horse head. Although, he said my report of the horse head is the first they've received on it. It was just the weirdest thing having it deform like that.
But I think their response is fantastic! Hopefully I can get this guy fixed up (if I can get the old head off and the new one on - between the super glue and apoxie I put it together with, that might prove to be a challenge).
Cheers,
Karrie
Well the gentleman who responded to my questions realized they were connected and instead of having me order a whole new kit has offered to send me a replacement horse head. Although, he said my report of the horse head is the first they've received on it. It was just the weirdest thing having it deform like that.
But I think their response is fantastic! Hopefully I can get this guy fixed up (if I can get the old head off and the new one on - between the super glue and apoxie I put it together with, that might prove to be a challenge).
Cheers,
Karrie
gordy
A Fixture
That's great service
kathrynloch
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 265
Maybe...just maybe...I won't need that head. I'm thinking my repairs, which I continued just because it is good practice, might actually work....maybe.
I had to put paint on the eye to help me see what it was doing.
Yes, I still have a lot of work to do, but I think it might be getting there.
The eyelid and eyelashes need the most work.
The orb, overall, is still a little large, it could stand more sanding and also putting a few more lines in it. The area where the orb descends in front of the eye and joins with the bridge of the nose, I think needs to cut downward a little bit more and be a tad more pronounced. The lower lid could also use more sanding.
The repaired eye doesn't quite match the original on the other side. I wasn't expecting exact but I was hoping to get it closer than I did - that's disappointing. The eyeball it'self is larger and if I "close" the lids a little more that might work. On the other hand, I don't want to bomb what I've already done.
The back part of the eye, while not bad, needs more smoothing and a little more tweaking I think.
But in general, I'm actually entertaining the thought that the repair might stand.
What do y'all think? Am I being overly optimistic?
Cheers,
Karrie
I had to put paint on the eye to help me see what it was doing.
Yes, I still have a lot of work to do, but I think it might be getting there.
The eyelid and eyelashes need the most work.
The orb, overall, is still a little large, it could stand more sanding and also putting a few more lines in it. The area where the orb descends in front of the eye and joins with the bridge of the nose, I think needs to cut downward a little bit more and be a tad more pronounced. The lower lid could also use more sanding.
The repaired eye doesn't quite match the original on the other side. I wasn't expecting exact but I was hoping to get it closer than I did - that's disappointing. The eyeball it'self is larger and if I "close" the lids a little more that might work. On the other hand, I don't want to bomb what I've already done.
The back part of the eye, while not bad, needs more smoothing and a little more tweaking I think.
But in general, I'm actually entertaining the thought that the repair might stand.
What do y'all think? Am I being overly optimistic?
Cheers,
Karrie
gordy
A Fixture
Impressive reconstruction I say go for it!
I say go for it!
kathrynloch
Well-Known Member
- Joined
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- Messages
- 265
Thank you gordy! I think I honestly can't resist and have to give it a shot. lol! We shall see how it goes this weekend - keep your fingers crossed for me.
kathrynloch
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 265
IMG intensive
Well, One-Eye can actually see again. I can't call him Old Blue yet like before, but hopefully soon.
I'm really sorry this is so pic heavy but the more people I have looking at this for stuff I missed, the better.
Okay about three hours worth of work this afternoon. When it all cures, he definitely needs a date with the sanding stuffs. lol! But we are progressing!
I'll just post de pics and y'all let me know what you think - especially if I missed anything or mucked up something and I'm not seeing it.
Any comments or ideas or if you spot something, are most welcome so please let me know.
Now, guess what I get to do...more SANDING!
Cheers,
Karrie
Well, One-Eye can actually see again. I can't call him Old Blue yet like before, but hopefully soon.
I'm really sorry this is so pic heavy but the more people I have looking at this for stuff I missed, the better.
Okay about three hours worth of work this afternoon. When it all cures, he definitely needs a date with the sanding stuffs. lol! But we are progressing!
I'll just post de pics and y'all let me know what you think - especially if I missed anything or mucked up something and I'm not seeing it.
Any comments or ideas or if you spot something, are most welcome so please let me know.
Now, guess what I get to do...more SANDING!
Cheers,
Karrie
marius'mules
Well-Known Member
You did a very good job at resurrecting him. He looks fine to me.
