WIP Critique Pegaso Roaming Knight

[kathrynloch]

Now don't misunderstand me, the hair at the very end can look lighter than the body of the mane. Some horses do lighten a bit, like I mentioned but that's black to brown. The other cause the thinning of the hair. The ends are different lengths, they break off, get chewed off by other horses, knotted up - so you will have less hair at the end and more individual lengths. The light both ambient and direct, strikes these thinner hairs and makes it appear lighter. But a black mane isn't going to look white from this and a brown mane isn't going to look gray or some off the wall color.

Here is a fantastic example of the end of a tail looking a little lighter in color because of thinner hair and the light.

This guy is a blue roan and they have black manes and tails with black points. You can see a very, very faint appearance of that burnt sienna color at the end of its tail. But it is not obvious and since this boy is obviously a show horse and meticulously groomed, it's most likely not due to sun fade.

Of course you will have light striking directly on high points, not so much on lower points. Look back at our original reference horse. You will see several places on his mane, at the highest points, he is gray in color - not white because of light hitting a high point. But because of that light striking the gray it will be lighter in color than what is at the base of his mane or underneath all that hair. But a high point of his mane is still gray because of pigment.

This red roan is a great example of all sorts of things going on with the color of the mane and tail. Start at the tail, he's got so many streaks they remind me of racing stripes. lol! While some of it can be attributed to light and those thinner and fewer hairs at the ends - the vast majority is caused by pigment. It's too bad we can't see the individual hairs up close but each one is probably a variety of colors.

Another way to get a hint if you're right about pigment is to look at other parts of the horse. But sometimes that can cause more problems than it solves. If you compare the tail to the mane - everyone just gets confused. But look at his legs and compare the color on them to his tail. The darker red on the leg fades and grows stronger in various places - it is very similar in color shift and graduation when compared to the tail.

Okay now go look at the mane. Wow! This is where pigment slaps light around and tells it to sit down and shut up. lol! That is one of the strongest reds I've ever seen - it's difficult to see any sort of light refraction in that color.

And for a chuckle, look closely at the forlock between his ears and right above the star. You see that strong red color but it's soft and fluffy hair - just a little puff. Then if you look close over his right eye (his right our left) you see a streak of mutant orange - again similar to the streaks in the tail.

Okay sorry I don't mean to *ahem* beat a dead horse but those are some key points about highlight manes and tails.

Now, onto the actual painting. As I said, the sculptor can be your best friend or worst enemy. With this particular horse, the sculptor is a definite friend!

How's that for racing stripes?

I started with a light gray and found the spots of gray pigment near or on the crest of my horse's neck. From that base where the hair grows from the crest, I painted my gray and then pulled it down the long hair in sections. While I'm doing this, I'm not even looking at high and low points. Not yet anyway. This is only paying attention to pigment right now

After I decided where my gray matched up with the pigment on the neck and finished painting that. I hit the rest of the mane, without gray pigment, a diluted bone white.

Here is where I need to pay attention to both pigment and light with this shadows and highlights. If you look closely you'll see I've painted in sections. Working in small areas where hair is on top in somepleases and on the bottom in the other (remember what I said about the sculptor - when you do this is when he proves his mettle.)

While the sculptor helps, it is definitely not foolproof. I gotta admit when I paint I develop an intense focus and I'll forget to check my reference. The next thing I know I'm painting only that tiny section in front of me. I'm so locked on, I don't see the forest for this one single tree, not just the tree but the bark on the tree and the little bug crawling in the bark...well, you get the point. I forget to check my reference, and that's when the painting gets away from me and does it's own thing.

When it does it's own thing is when it it looks like crap and I have to go back, paint gray over everything and start over.

I've gotten a little farther along but it's still not doing what I want. Okay time to take a break from that. No use beating my head against the wall if I can't get the layers right.

Here we go on the tail.

The same principle applies. Unfortunately, I also repeat the same mistakes. I am pulling way too much highlight into the recesses.

While pigment can sometimes beat the crap out of light we still have to have shadows where shadows belong and highlights where they belong. I start with my "almost black" mix. Then I follow it with a bluish slate gray in the midpoints. Finally I paint my dead white mix on the high points. I start seeing that part of my problem no transition. Even though I'm working with glazes and blending, the change between the colors is too abrupt.

So the plan is to mix more transitional colors. One thing too, I also wanted to see how translucent these particular glazes were going to be (I was working with the Vallejo Glazing medium). As the tail dried, the middle part slowly revealed more color under the glaze. That part is moving more in the direction I want, especially compared to the top and bottom which are being exceptionally stubborn.

And that's our latest chapter in the artist getting mauled by a stubborn mane and tail working directly with rebellious acrylic paint.

WHEW!

I hope this actually makes sense - I'm really tired and I think I'm typing Egyptian Hieroglyphs.

If you have any questions or find spots where I talk in circles, let me know and I'll fix it when I get up in the morning.

 

[pinsel]

hello
yes an very complex of big heavy tin you got here.you get along fine.the horse looks fine.
i can only underline the thing with the andrea flesh set.
I TOO WAS UNABLE TO UNDERTSAND THE LEAFLET WITH ISTRUCTIONS
makes me feel an little better if others cn not follow this as well
one simply has to fiddle around untill one gets and pleasing result.good is the are very good to blend and one can use then in thin washes.
happy painting

 

[Edorta]

Karrie, I love the colors you've chosen for your hair and skin of the horse. In my view, your technique is personal and innovative. Excellent work, certainly when you're adding color to the straps of the horse, highlighted hair tones will be more intense.

http://www.mininet.tv/egminiatures.html

 

[kathrynloch]

hello
yes an very complex of big heavy tin you got here.you get along fine.the horse looks fine.
i can only underline the thing with the andrea flesh set.
I TOO WAS UNABLE TO UNDERTSAND THE LEAFLET WITH ISTRUCTIONS
makes me feel an little better if others cn not follow this as well
one simply has to fiddle around untill one gets and pleasing result.good is the are very good to blend and one can use then in thin washes.
happy painting

Whew! Thank you Markus! I am so glad it's not just me who struggled with that. I was feeling pretty silly there for awhile. Something that appears so simple suddenly turned into brain surgery. lol! I do like the quality of the paints and I love the colors but I just had to keep working until I came up with my own way to do it.

I'm always on my soapbox about people using test models for new techniques with horsie colors but I need to practice what I preach when it comes to faces. Unfortunately I don't have people models lying around that I can use as tests. Maybe I should find some old dolls or something. lol!

Karrie, I love the colors you've chosen for your hair and skin of the horse. In my view, your technique is personal and innovative. Excellent work, certainly when you're adding color to the straps of the horse, highlighted hair tones will be more intense.

http://www.mininet.tv/egminiatures.html

Thank you very much, Eduardo! I really appreciate that, as the personal side of the technique is a big thing for me. Yes, someone showed me how to do certain things and using that as a basis I worked until I found something that was mine. I hope sharing with other folks, they will do the same and develop their own styles and techniques especially regarding horses. Imagine some of the fun things we can all learn from each other if we start experimenting. Lots of people have told me they never thought about applying dry pigment and using it directly as a medium - I know there are things out there that still need to be discovered.

Speaking of straps I did a test fit of the extra bits that go on the horse. I realized immediately that I need to finish the horse's color completely before I paint and apply those. They will definitely get in the way if I don't do that.

Thank you again both of you!

Okay, time to go mix up some paint and get to work!

Cheers,
Karrie

 

[pinsel]

hello Karrie
i saw your horses and those are superb.so you got the artistry in you- no fear.when you do more faces surely you will get the same excellent results like on the horses.which are the best i have seen so far.
with the andrea colours.i found out that it worked out well to start with the base coat from them.then the lighter areas and then the darker wich are the folds around mouth eyesockets ect.if you add some red to the colours for the cheeks it would make it more lifelike.
i have no big talents but the andrea stuff make it easier to paint faces because they blend well.
me too is happy that even artistry people can not understand the leaflet they include.nor have i ever understood any guidelines shown on pics which circvle around for paintzing figure faces..such things wopuld only work out,when one looks the painters over the shoulder.
so happy painting.and you have really startet with an highly complex and demanding figure.
cheers

 

[kathrynloch]

Thank you so much Markus, you are too kind.

This is very good as the technique you just described is basically the way I was working - the red in the cheeks I did attempt but I couldn't get the right balance...it would turn too strong and I'd try to carefully mute it - only to obliterate it entirely.

But hey that's okay - it's all a matter of practice and fine tuning. I'll definitely keep working on it!

Thank you again, I am so glad you like my horses.

 

[kathrynloch]

One tail finished and a mane coming up. But before I get into that, I have a question for folks.

Does anyone use the premixed Vallejo colored glazes? I have black, brown, and white...and maybe an ocher that I tried once and hated. The white glaze and I are also mortal enemies. But the black and brown...every once in awhile they work. I also have a bottle of the Vallejo Glaze Medium on its own.

Now way back when, I learned that a wash was a pigment diluted with water - basically ink. A glaze was paint mixed with water or a glazing medium. It was different because paint is pigment mixed with a resin or plastic type binder and water. I don't know if that is correct but that's how I define glaze vs. washes. At the time I didn't have easy access to anything like that, regular glazing medium or anything. I had to special order acrylic retarder through a local art store that supplies the schools and they thought I was nuts for ordering it.

After getting some painting experience, I decided to try Vallejo paints. Again I really couldn't find easy access to them online. Vallejo was up and coming on the internet but it was tough and expensive to get. We have a local brick and mortar miniature store, which is absolutely shocking considering this isn't a big town. If you don't like that store, you have to drive 2+ hours to Houston. Well that store carried Vallejo paint so I decided to nab some even tho it was insanely expensive. I know they didn't move a lot of paint quickly that's for certain and the bottles could have been sitting on the shelves for years for all I know. But when I saw the Vallejo Glazing Medium and the premade glazes I grabbed them fast!

The first one I opened was Black and squeezed it out. UGH! It was this thick black oooze. Is that what it's supposed to be or is it just really old?

I honestly have no idea because I don't use it that much and it's lasted forever so I haven't bought any more. I mixed it with water and with the plain Glazing Medium. I haven't had much luck with it in the past but I keep playing around with it searching for the proper magic mix for it. I am seeing improvement though so I've been using it more and more. Just the black tho, the brown doesn't quite cut it and I don't think I'll ever get the hang of the white.

I have no idea if I'm using this particular medium "correctly" but if anyone has any experience with it please jump in and let me know what you do and how it works for you. And is it really sludge coming out of the bottle????

Okay, back to the tail. One thing jumped out at me as I prepared to work on this yesterday. Right before I was scheduled to compete in the Regional Tournament a few months ago, my Taekwondo instructor gave me a great bit of wisdom, "You learn more from losing than you do from winning."

I seriously agree with that statement as I always learn more from my mistakes than I do from successes.

I tackled the tail with a better, more thought out plan and as long as I was able to keep myself from focusing too intensely, I was able to stick to it. But I had another bump in the road. My hand tremors were much worse, one of the worst days I've had in about two or three years.

That made painting extremely difficult but at least I wasn't working on the other eye. Still hitting the high points of the sculpted hair got tough at times. On top of that everyone was driving me nuts. It's get up for this, run to town for that. OMG! Just leave me alone! I've painted three strands of hair in four hours because people can't be independent and think or do for themselves!

So your going to see some definite slop every now and then and the fact I have to go backwards to fix it. But when things started to come together...that's when I got jazzed. And that's when the phone would ring and someone in the family needed me to do something...GAH! Never mind I'll just get into another rant. lol!

Okay for the tail, I mixed up some more transitional colors and started it over with a solid application of my "mostly black" paint. I think I mentioned my "mostly black" mix. Dark gray, a small touch of burnt sienna and just enough black to make it look like black when it's standing by itself. The only time you can tell it's not really black is when it's right next to the real thing. lol!

Last time, I used a slate blue paint and I do like that color but needed it darker. So I mixed it with a little medium gray, one drop of black paint, and a small amount of beasty brown. I thinned with water and put just a tiny amount of retarder in it.

After the mostly black, I applied the darker gray/slate color.

And promptly over-did it. But I gotta be fair with myself. I did over-paint but a majority of it the hand tremors caused.

I don't know if anyone really noticed but our reference horse has a lot of "burnt sienna" coloring in his tail. So I added a bit of beasty brown for that.

UGH! There goes the slop again! That was three steps forward, now we do two steps back.

I reapplied my mostly black and the dark slate. Yes, it's still pretty crappy but it is an improvment. At least the color is going in the right direction.

I brought up the glazing stuff at the beginning because I had mixed up a combination of light gray, bone white, black glaze, glazing medium and water in a little jar. It's a warmer toned gray but only slightly and it's sorta like a glaze but not. lol! Sorry for the vagueness on that - it's just not easy to describe because I don't measure this stuff as I mix. I go until I get the consistency and color that I like. But it's got too much paint to be a glaze and too much glaze medium to be a paint.

How about if we call it a plaze? I'm sure there's some sort of term for it but plaze works for now.

I apply the warm gray plaze to the high points of the tail. Then I took just plain old black glaze, added the glaze medium and water....lots of water and thinned it really well.

And there ya go - I overworked it again. Three steps forward so now I take two steps back and add my beasty brown.

This time I apply not my light gray mix but an offwhite mix I whipped up. This mix I made is lighter than Vallejo bone white but has more brown in than Vallejo Off-White.

As I'm working, I see the tail color moving toward my goal and I'm struggling not to rush to finish it. When that dries I apply another layer of black glaze - very lightly to the off-white high points.

*continued next post*

 

[kathrynloch]

Completed tail - part 2.

I'm looking hard at my reference horse now and seeing how this light off white colors are dispersed through the tail. He doesn't have big solid off white streaks running through it.

So I'm going to show you a series of pictures that I took of the finished tail. I suddenly started having white balance issues with the camera even though it had worked just fine for the previous photos and nothing had changed since. The way I was working I was struggling to take pics through the steps so I hope this will work.

The various exposures allow (I hope) folks to see the different highlights, colors, and shadows. Of course the real key is how your monitor is calibrated - so we'll see how it goes.

Okay so I had to break up the huge white highlights. I just applied that black glaze and water mix. That's it, no other special formula.

I applied only to the off white areas to tone them down a bit.

Here's one "white balance setting" of the finished tail.

I did not edit this in any software except to crop it and resize it - so this is how the camera saw it.

After muting the off white highlights they were still too prominent and wide. So I took the black glaze to the side of the high points, from where it rests against the lower sculpted hair of the tail to the middle of the raised strand and used the black glaze to make it appear narrower.

And another "white balance setting" of the final tail.

I did that twice, allowing the glaze to dry each time. But the off white strands are still too long and obvious so I concentrated on only the low curves and recesses of the highlighted strands. I applied black glaze only to those areas, allowed it to dry, and applied in the same fashion a second time.

Another "white balance setting." I don't know about you guys but on my monitor these look quite different. I calibrate my monitors for high quality color photos.

Well, I'm calling it done. I'm just disappointed that I can't get the photos to really look like it does sitting here in front of me.

The white balance setting on my camera is a custom setting so it adjusts to conditions. It's amazing how much variation you can get by not really changing anything. lol!

Yet another white balance version.

Ah well, I'll let you guys decide which photo you like best. I think the color is pretty much dead on to the reference and the layers as well as the coarse wiry look of the hair (which is a breed trait in Gypsy horses) is right there. At least in real life. Maybe I can get the camera to cooperate later.

One last note. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas, please feel free to post them. I like getting feedback even if it spotting a mistake. As long as it's constructive I can take criticism. Hey, I'm an author - my novels used to get ripped apart by editors.

I didn't realize it when I started this thread but I should have set the prefix to Critique but since I'm new here I wasn't sure how that worked.

So don't let my goof on posting the thread prefix stop ya! If you see something that could be improved, please let me know (remember what my Taekwondo teacher said about learning more from losing. )

Ideas, comments, suggestions, questions, pretty much anything but yelling at me (Just kidding! I know you guys wouldn't yell at me!) are very much welcome. lol!

Cheers,
Karrie

 

[housecarl]

You've done a great job on the tail. Glaze medium, from the Vallejo site. http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/auxiliaries-model-paints.html
A colorless glaze which is used to mix with acrylic colors; improves fluidity, increases transparency, and slows drying time. Ideal for shadows, and shadings.
Characteristics: Slow drying acrylic medium of milky appearance, dries transparent. Can be diluted further with water. There's a great face painting SBS in the articles at the page top.
Hope that helps,
Carl.

 

[kathrynloch]

Thank you for the link and your kind words on the tail, Carl. I appreciate it!

I visited Vallejo again. I'm sorry I wasn't clear, my questions were more toward the Pre-Mixed Vallejo Glazes. Such as black Model Color 855 Black Glaze. They have them listed but nothing specific about them. Those were the ones that are most like sludge. I thin them with both the Glaze Medium and water.

I just re-read my post - warning - you probably want to stop reading here as the rest is just me rambling about medieval horses and brushes and other stuffs. Boring but I've typed too long to have the heart to delete it. lol! Sorry!


Rambling...starts here:

At least going back to the site I discovered that their RK 25 Red Sable brushes that I can no longer find will now be released as RK 25 Tajmir Sable Brushes.

But I'm recalling something about Escoda and Vallejo...are Vallejo brushes assembled by Escoda or something? I need to do some more research.

I then wandered to Michigan Toy Soldier to look at medieval figures. Romeo caught my eye. But what was up with the Hospitaler? (Yes, I found the thread here). Yes medieval warhorses were nothing close to the modern draft horse but equating them with a modern hunter is stretching it as well.

Breeders could produce horses 14.2 - 15.0 hands...maybe 15.2 when the medieval period hit it's upswing. They just managed to start producing a few...very few...horses approaching 16.0 hands at the end of the medieval age and into the Renaissance.

Iberians were often imported to England and Europe for breeding stock - what we know as the Andalusian and Lusitano today. That line while very different from their medieval ancestors is probably the closest we're going to get to the medieval war horse.

The medieval war horse had to be strong, nimble, fast, and courageous. The knight who rode him had to be able to hit the ground, get to his feet and remount his steed by himself during battle. If that was not possible, death usually arrived moments later.

I'd really like to find some medieval figures, with horses, that are nice sculpts. That's why I like the Roaming Knight, it's late period and while the horse is on the drafty side, it's still lean and refined enough that I can let that slide. Similar to the Gypsy and Drum horses who were also around in the medieval age but again nothing like they are now. But it's close enough I can "stretch" the lineage...that I don't mind.

I think Andrea had a nice sculpt of a great likeness of Russel Crowe in Gladiator - I like that one but he's also on a horse with issues. Although they did one of John Wayne - Courage - that the horse looks okay. I can't remember which of Wayne's horses that was - not Dollar...I'll have to look that one up too.

 

[Andrew Craft]

Awesome SBS Karrie, I have a horse sitting on the work bench but have always been to scared to start it but your SBS is making me think it could be time to give it a shot.

Andrew.

 

[kathrynloch]

Thank you Andrew! Which horse do you have? Any ideas of what color and what medium?

Good luck either way! If you need anything, let me know.

Cheers,
Karrie

 

[Andrew Craft]

Hi Karrie,
I'm not sure what colour I'll go with I don't know what kind of horse it is maybe you know. I'll be using acrylics to paint it. Here is a link to the figure I isn't want to post it in your SBS.
http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/showthread.php?p=418107#post418107

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[kathrynloch]

No worries! Horsie pictures of any sort are always welcome in my thread. But I did respond to your post with my thoughts.

While the range of colors you have to chose from might be a little daunting, if you pick something that is a bit toward the non-standard (for models not horses) side, such as roan, dun, or something with a few spots. I think it will be a lot of fun for ya.

Horses aren't nearly as difficult as people think.

Let me know and if you need any help or have any questions just holler.

 

[kathrynloch]

Sometimes my reach exceeds my grasp.

The mane and tail on my reference horse are very different from each other. While Mother Nature, in her great artistry, can pull this off on a living animal. I find my limited skills on a static model falling woefully short.

I wanted to do my best to bring out the differences in the mane and tail but I knew before I started it would be difficult. On a static model it can easily look like the mane was painted by one person, and came off of one model, and the tail was painted by another, and came off an entirely different model.

I tried several techniques over the past couple of days, but finally had to settle for the most basic, and for me the least aesthetically pleasing. But sometime in the future I will develop the skills to make a mane like this appear in the manner I want...I hope.

First, I layered various sections in medium gray and bone white.

I worked to blend these a bit in hopes I could get only the thinned paint to cooperate. The mane is much lighter than the tail on the reference and I hope to avoid using the black glaze. Unfortunately the differences between the two were too much and it appeared forced and contrived. So, I had to do a layer of light black glaze.

I did not want the glaze to run down the neck so I put the model on it's side and started at the crest of the neck, carefully pulling the glaze down into the mane and letting gravity help me out.

When that was finished and dry, I turned the model over. I couldn't get the ends of the mane before so I did here.

Certain sections of the mane are more gray than white and vice versa but all have a mix of the off white and gray - lots of crossover.

I painted thin layers of various shades of gray in the gray areas and blurred them into the off-white sections. First layer was dark gray mixed with a little bluish-slate gray, Second layer a thin medium gray. and Third layer a light gray with a touch of bone white.

Then I took the light gray with the small amount of bone white and used regular white to lighten it just a bit more. I applied that to the off-white areas, blurring them as well, then a final highlight of regular white.

And at least I now have one section of mane done. I still have to do the underside and the area of flying mane toward the front and clean up the mane where it's rooted to the crest of his neck.

Here's the completed part and I'm glad to have it done.

 

[kathrynloch]

Finally! Mane and Tail Improvement

Okay I got it now.

On the mane and tail, I struggled with paint, glazes, and layering, I kept pushing and not getting what I wanted. So as I painted the other parts of the mane, primarily the forelock, it dawned on me I can still use my pastels and pigments and they might give me a better look than what I had.

First, I tried my small brushes. But that sends dust flying and I've worked so hard on his body color and his face, I don't want to screw that up. So I tried my pointed cotton swabs and it was still a struggle. Then I had another :doh: moment. I remembered applying the Pearl-Ex pigments to the knight's armor with my Colour Shapers. They really work wonderfully and improve control. Yes there's still a bit of dust and particles but the reduction in the amount is nothing short of amazing.

So I dug those suckers out again - and got pissed - I had to stop and clean off my table just a bit to find one of them (more like shift a pile of junk from one corner to the other). And I still can't find it! ARGH! So the round pointed one I'm using isn't the regular one, this one is larger and softer. It works but I need to find my missing round.

Anyways, first I layered on the Paynes Gray pan pastel that has a strong blue color, then I followed it up with black. Because the acrylic stuff I already had on there, textures and colors are uneven. The pastel dust adheres to the model differently than if we started off nice and clean. So I had to play with it a little to get the color and intensity I wanted. The Black pan pastel wasn't strong enough so I went back to my Black Pigment and that worked nicely, although I had to be careful or I would obliterate the Paynes Gray.

I had a hard time getting pics while I worked because I was just trying different layering ideas, so I didn't start snapping photos until I decided it was acceptable. Because I'm going back to a powdered medium and I don't want to ruin my previous work. I wrapped the horse in my blue paper shop towels with only the mane exposed. He looks like he's being prepped for surgery. lol! But his body has been sealed so this not only cuts down on the stray pigment dust, it allows me to handle him without worry of getting dirt and oils from my fingers on those white markings. With the mane curving all over the place, I have to be able to turn him in various directions.

After the application of the blue Paynes Gray and the Black pigment with my Colour Shaper, I sealed and let him dry. Then I went back and applied my White Pigment. It's funny in these photos there of course are tiny white specks of pigment - my camera and my editing software picked that up as noise so it looks kinda funny. lol!

Because the pigments and pastels are translucent, I still get the acrylic work showing through, so at least all those hours of painting didn't go to waste.

Getting the underside of the mane was the hardest part because I had to move the paper towels and work very carefully. Basically I just took the Shaper put it in a deep recess of an area of the mane, then pulled it toward me, dragging it along to the tip of the mane. The shaper automatically hits the raised areas and leaves pigment there. When I was working with the blue and black shadows and wanted to get into a really deep section, I'd push the rounded tip straight in and turn it a little so it works for both highlight and shadows, you just have to change the application technique.

Basically, all I do is put the shader straight into the pigment, and tap off the excess on the side of the jar.

I'm hitting just the raised areas of the mane with the white. But the point is the smallest area of the shader so it doesn't hold pigment - a couple of touches and it's gone. So I only use to the tip to get into spots that are raised but aren't as pronounced as some of the major points. I only touch and drag the tip very lightly and the drag is minimal. If you hit a rough spot with the tip, it skips or bounces along and shakes powder all over the place. I use a very light touch and in some places it's just like making a series of dots down the line I want to highlight.

Don't try to go heavy handed on this stuff or it's going to do more harm than good when you have to clean up the mess on the exposed surface.

For the larger, more pronounced high points, I use more of the side...I hold the shaper at an angle and drag it across the highpoint. That leaves pigment but it might get just a little clumpy, so I use the tip to even it up a little.

I do this over the entire mane.

I finished the mane last night and sealed again. It's dry now so when I go to take more pics today of other stuff, I'll be sure to get the final ones of these highlights.

When working with powdered pigments and pastels, I really can't say enough about these Colour Shapers. I absolutely love them! If you work with powdered medium at all they are a must have. I discovered on Dick Blick they also have miniature sizes now, made for finer work. So guess what I had to order. I'll put 'em to the test when they arrive and report back.

They're made in the UK so folks across the pond should have no trouble finding them. you can also use them for sculpting and even paint. They're nonporous so they don't absorb anything. After you use them, just wipe them off or rinse them. Even if something like paint dries on them you just peel it off. I've used them to apply PVA glue, Apoxie, GS, and several other things besides pigment. The only thing I haven't risked them on is super glue or the baking soda super glue mix. hehehe Nope, not gonna try that one.

One last thing I want to mention, if you give these a shot, this is the one item where I'll tell you to get this EXACT brand. The cheap wannabe's and knock offs are terrible. I tried them and promptly relegated them to the "this will probably destroy whatever I use to do this" project pile. They don't hold a candle to the original - so this is the one time it's brand specific.

 

[kathrynloch]

Okay I need to get these posted and then crash so I can go to work tomorrow. Blech!

First, I promised photos of the horse's mane since I went back and used pigments on it. So here they are:

I personally like it better.

Over on CMON, some friends and I were discussing pigments, pastels, and applying to clothing as I started the cloak. Normally I do wet-blending techniques on a cloak but I wondered how it would do with pigments. A couple of my friends are really interested, so I stopped painting and went after the pigments.

So here's the inside of the knights cloak after I did the first layer of blending with acrylics. I had planned to accent my highlights and shadows in subsequent layers, all using wet-blending techniques.

Not bad, nothing special just your normal, boring olive drab base.

I have a couple of pigment colors I never used because they have a strong green undertone. I have enough trouble with florescent lights in a show hall making certain horses green. I don't need to add something with even more green in it. But for this scenario, these colors are perfect and I get to try them out now.

So here they are:

Natural Umber is the greenest of the green and it's the one I've had since 2008 or so. I don't think Earthpigments.com offers it any more. I only cracked it open to check the color and went UGH! Then put it away.

Colonial Raw Umber is a brand new one. Earth Pigments just started carrying the Colonial line and they're advertised as having different undertones from the regular pigments. So I bought a couple of them to see how this new undertone works out. While it's not as bad as the Natural Umber - its still got quite a bit of green.

Light Sienna, now this one I've actually used just a bit. I think it might be the reason why my buckskin horse looks green in certain light even though I only did one layer with it toward the very beginning. I've also used it for mixing. I had a color recipe from someone who painted in oils. Well, I had to translate that to pigments. So working with an oil paint color chart, I approximated and one of the colors was close to the Light Sienna - believe it or not it worked brilliantly and the final color had no sign of green.

Natural Black - You've seen how strong my Black 318 Oxide is - it can nuke almost anything. This one is supposed to be softer and more translucent. We shall all find out when I try it.

Normally because I'm working with tints, not real colors, I have to put down a white base and start from there. But a couple of folks...well...let's just say they get in a hurry and think they can skip a few steps. hehe...so I wanted to see how it works and show what happens when you start from a dark base. The darker it is, the harder it is to get the colors to show up - usually but sometimes things surprise me.

So starting this, let's say we've got a painter - experienced but not too much experience, working on the cloak that results in the above color and for whatever reason this person decides he hates it. He can't stand it and it needs to be changed NOW. There's the crazy chick on the forums who has been talking about painting with pigments. He's got some weathering pigments that would work so here goes.

But he doesn't want to waste time with applying the white paint. Or the paint on the mini is too thick. Or he doesn't have any white paint. Or he didn't read that part about white paint.

He just picks up the brush and goes - the one thing he does remember and does do is go from light to dark. He also remembers to use a Colour Shaper instead of a brush. haha! Seriously, with the knight already started I'm not going to use a brush. I'll use it a little and in certain areas but it's not going to be my sole weapon of choice.

He ends up with this:

I still have two more steps to do. Blow off the extra dust on the mini with canned air and check for pigment in places it's not supposed to be and knock it down with a brush.

I've talked about previously in this thread how high quality pastels lay down more tint than poor quality with less pigment and more binders in them. And how this tint can disappear on dark surfaces when it's sealed. And I think I mentioned how pigments are stronger than pastels because they don't have a binder - they are just pure pigment.

So the question is, when I apply sealer will the disappear completely? Will it change the tint at all - strong, medium, or barely noticable? Will it totally overpower the base color like my Black 318 Oxide pigment or my Titanium White Oxide? What do you think will happen?

You'll find out when I do - I'll apply the sealer tomorrow and post the results. So tune in again, same bat time, same bat channel.

Have a good night everyone!

 

[kathrynloch]

Finally I get a chance to post some updates to my thread. I've been working on this guy but haven't had the chance to actually upload anything. So here we go with the catch-up.

Because I'm applying pigments to paint and using the Colour Shaper, and because it's difficult to get in between the knight and the cloak (believe me, if the join for his head and shoulders hadn't been so off, the cloak wouldn't be on him at all. (Dare I say it?) It was the only way I could get his head on straight. Okay bad joke, sorry. Anyway, I'm using more pressure to apply pigment than I would be with a brush, so check this out:

I used canned air to blow off the dust and still had what was circled. I can almost guarantee that's going to be a problem and turn to mud.

Now, drum roll please, here is the cloak after a very light sealer application.

Hey, where did it go? This is what happens when you apply a light tint to a darker surface. But look closely, the only thing that actually survived was the problem areas!

I circled the goobers in red.

Now, we aren't a total failure. I know it's really hard to see in pics, especially depending on monitor calibration, but while I circled the bad in red, I used blue arrows to point out the difference the pigment did make. It's subtle, it's only on the lighter high points, and you can barely see it, but it is there.

So now what do I do? Is the cloak ruined? Do I have to strip it now? Will I be able to use pigments at all?

This one is an easy fix so don't worry about that. First, I give the sealer at least 20-30 minutes to dry. Then I take one of my riffler files and a sanding pad and sand the worst of the caked on pigment. If you decide to use pigments consistently, invest in the sanding pads from Micro Mark and some sanding sponges. Most of the time you can very lightly sand off the pigment problems without ruining your base.

Sanding pads at Micro Mark I use all of the grits in these things but use the 150 the most when I start the prep - the higher grits come when I'm almost done with the prep.

Sanding sponges at Rockler I get the 320 grit and 220 grit. No, not all sponges are created equal. I use the 320 and 220 grits you can get at Walmart or the DIY store but for when I need to take off pigment and not screw up the other layers, I trim a small piece off of one of these. They are bloody fantastic. I need to do a more thorough search because I've only found them at Rockler and unless you wait until they have a sale, the shipping is steep. But these things are worth it - you can take off just a tiny amount of pigment and sealer without ripping through all of your work.

Sandpaper creases and will gouge into the the primer. That's why you want to cut off small pieces of the sanding sponge, it won't gouge and if you're careful it won't ruin your hard work.

Okay, after I sand off the globs of pigment, I'm going to do this right. I don't have to strip anything. I'm just going to take some very thinned down white gesso and use that. It will cover the dark green well enough and have decent tooth for the pigments.

So I knocked off quite a bit of nasty pigment globs and painted the cloak with watered down white gesso. Waited for that to dry and hit it with a second.

If you don't want to use gesso, use thinned white paint, or a brush on primer of your choice as long as it's white. You really don't want to start adding layers of primer then white paint, it could get a little much. Just keep it smart and keep it thin.

After that dried, I applied the pigment. Now that I have a white surface and can actually see the pigment. I had to slow down because I could see all the spots I missed. lol! When I use the Colour Shapers I use the flat chisel for the most part. I put it in the pigment, tap off the excess powder, then press it to the cloak and drag while keeping a slight amount of pressure. If you hit an area with less tooth, or perhaps a divot where the color doesn't want to lay down. You can simply press downward with the Shaper and it works just fine. With the chisel, this works wonderfully in the deep folds of the cloak. The round point helps me get in behind and areas that the chisel can't reach. Plus, I still use a very small brush to push pigment around when I need to.

Yay! We have our first layer of pigments. Note it does look a little streaky but that's okay.

Sealing will many times tone down streaks as long as they aren't as loud as zebra stripes or something.

So now I have to blow off the dust. I used canned air because if I use lung power I will (and have) spit on the work. You will too so don't laugh. It's a matter of when, not if. If you spit on it, set it aside to dry. Hopefully it won't leave a mark. If it does and it's huge and obviously you'll have to sand it lightly then put more pigment over it. Canned air, for me works great but if you shake or hold the can at an angle you're going to get liquid on your pigment. If this happens again let it sit until it dries - usually, this stuff dries with lightning speed.

Important note: The back of the cloak was still gray primer. I will paint it white and do the pigments on the back as well next I want to make the inside of the cloak slightly darker, as if lined. But I have to hold off on that because of the way I paint and having to rest the mini on its back. If you don't have hand tremor issues and can paint with the mini on a rod or have it on a base and it doesn't touch anything, go ahead and do the front and the back at the same time.

So back to the cloak. I make sure I have no other areas with pigment where it's not supposed to be and he's good to seal.

And now we have color!

Doesn't that look a heck of a lot better than that green mess we had the first time around??????

We have a nice, smooth rather golden looking cloak. The texture isn't really coming though in the photos but the stuff is looking like material believe it or not.

Just a touch of streakiness, but you can see the sealer toned that down a lot.

Be aware if you use pastels, it will probably take two to three layers of those to equal the color intensity I just got with pigment. If you got bargain basement pastels, it make take more.

As it is now, I do need to put one more layer of this color on and seal again. There is enough texture remaining that if I put on a darker color the grain will pop like crazy and it will look bad. Applying another layer of the current color will fill that texture just a bit and we won't have to worry about it.

So there is layer one and we are now painting with pigments.

 

[kathrynloch]

And continuing - here's the knight with two layers of Light Sienna. Notice how just one additional layer of this stuff tweaked it quite a bit to the green side.

For some reason I hear Kermit singing...."It's not easy being green....."

Moving right along. Here's the cloak after a layer of the Colonial Raw Umber and sealed.

Now it's time for black. I started with this Vine Black pigment I've never used before. My friend was right, it isn't nearly as strong as the Black 318. I was barely putting any color down. Now I'm patient but I would like to get done with this thing before the apocalypse.

So I grabbed my Black 318 and just hit the deepest recesses of the cloak - or at least that was the idea.

Before sealing I took the Vine black and went over the recesses that were to mild for the 318 but it is so strong it went a little overboard.

Ah, that's okay I'm not overly worried about it. Now to seal. And this is what I ended up with after applying the sealer.

Whoa! Remember I said pigments can still surprise me. This is kinda cool!

I think it looks a lot like leather with a greenish tint but I really didn't want leather...and it doesn't look exactly like it...

Then I realized, it looks a lot like oilskin.

But it's went a little too dark for my liking and the green tint is still a bit much.

So I decided to lighten it.

I can just imagine what you're thinking What? You just showed us that it doesn't do any good to put pigment on a dark surface!

Well, when you learn the qualities of certain pigments and how they react, then you can really pull out the stops.

Second to the black in quality and coverage is my Titanium White. While it has great coverage, it also has a strong underlying blue tint. And that's gotten me into more trouble than I care to count.

But all of the frustration was worth it. And...basic color theory...blue neutrializes yellow.

So I took some light yellow ocher, we haven't used that one yet, and I mixed it with some Titanium White. This keeps the blue in check and the reddish bit of the ocher tint (it doesn't have much) oftsets the green if it decides to go nuts.

So I applied this combination over the high points of the cloak. Becaue it's the inside of the cloak, I don't want true highlights, I just want the raised areas slightly lighter.

We know when we apply the sealer, it will fade but watch.

The raised areas are now lighter. I'm going to take a second layer to them.

We can see a faint but noticeable difference.

I went ahead and applied another layer and sealed. A big thing you need to watch, spraying too much sealer will cause the pigments to float...eventually ruining your work. Also with applying light on top of dark, keep your sealer application VERY light. I've got the first layer sealed on him but he's not quite there yet. You are better served using 3 or more very light sealer coats instead of just one and getting it on so thick you can't do anything with it. Too much sealer and it puddles which moves the pastel dust around. So I did one layer and sealed it lightly and I'm going to go back do the other. That should be all we need.

So, is everyone totally confused yet?

And guess what! My mini colour shapers arrived today! They are wonderful! A perfect size! So, while I was pretty happy already with the cloak, I went back and this time finessed it.

The same colors, just different size and shape applicators and better control.

I like it!

Seriously, I don't want to overwork the piece which is something I'm terrible about doing. So I'm calling it good there. I still need to do the cowl and I think I'll go ahead and get started on the back of the cloak. I might do a little more horsie work too. He's still got a lot of stuff that needs to be done.

So now I'm officially caught up with the posting...unfortunately I'm so far behind on the reading it's not funny.

 

[kathrynloch]

Okay - got some more work done tonight. Thank goodness tomorrow's Friday because I'm up too late again tonight.

First, more work on the cloak - this time the back.

I began the same way I did the inside - white gesso and a layer of light sienna. But this time instead of adding a second layer of light sienna, I moved to a reddish color with a hint of an orange tint called Rose Earth.

For the outside I still want that rich color but more reddish tone to it.

I then added a layer of Cypress Umber Warm then switched immediately to Black 318. I was hoping to use only Vine Black but I could tell it just wasn't going to behave. So I brought out the big stick. I added it only in the deepest recesses like before but this time I stopped the minute I reached an area where the recess widened. When I got the Black 318 everywhere I wanted, I cleaned of my large flat chisel and used it only to move the pigment around, not to apply anything more. This worked quite nicely.

After the sealer dried I took the mini cup chisel and wen't back to the rose earth and the lighter sienna color I had mixed for the inside of the cloak. I went over only the raised folds.

I don't know why it struck me to do this, but there was just something about the way that color went down. After using the cup chisel, I grabbed one of my cheapie pointed cotton swabs and used that to lightly smooth and blend all of the highlights I had just applied. I think it was too rough and chalky for my taste but i don't usually do that, especially when putting light color on dark since the sealer tends to obliterate it anyway. But it seemed to work - or at least not make it worse. :cute:

The sealer is dry and I'm thinking of putting one last layer of the Rose Earth on just the high points or a Burnt Sienna. I'll have to sleep on that one.

While waiting for the cloak to dry, I decided to grab the horse and work on his other eye.

I almost made it blue instead but I went with brown. I also made it a little lighter than my normal brown so it's a bit easier to see. I also wished I would have thought to take more pictures. I mucked up and put a little too much bone white and it filled in the detail around the eye. For some reason this one is extremely difficult for me to see (I hate getting old). So I carefully removed the paint and cleaned out the lines of the eye. If I can't see the lines I can't do a decent eye.

I should have photographed this to demonstrate how to fix a woops. The hardest part about the whole thing was scraping the paint out of the detail. Too much and I'd move the metal and torque detail - don't want to do that. Once I got it all cleaned up, I carefully hit it with black glaze. I did that three times and each time it made the detail pop a little more and easier to see. Plus it added enough paint that I can go in with a cotton swab and touch up the area with my black pastel (not pigment), then fix his white markings on his face and we're good to go.

It's important to note that on a real horse this area around the eye is basically skin and using thinned acrylics helps make it look more like skin and less like fur. So you're going to want to use glazes around the eye, all the way to the top of the orb and down under the eye fading in a bit of a teardrop shape following his nose. Then touch it with pastels to blend.

Once the glaze was dry and I could again see the detail. I started in my usual fashion of applying bone white first.

The eye one the left is slightly different shape than on the right and even with me cleaning it up, it was still really hard to see. So I constantly had to check it with my camera. I'd take pics and see where I missed, then go back and do it again.

After that came the brown ink just lightly touched to the eyeball.

Because this eye seems smaller to me I didn't put my normal black partial orb on there. I just got done cleaning the excess paint, I didn't want to put it back on. I went straight to the beastie brown and applied it. But it was still a bit too much, I had to go back and carefully, carefully apply the bone white in the corners. A little touch of more beastie brown to make sure I control the direction of the eye and where he's looking.

While the brown was still wet I got my black and applied it horizontally for the pupil.

I waited a few minutes - did another layer on the cloak - then came back and did a touch of brown ink.

I know he looks funny like this but it's hard to get a good pic of this eye and I wanted y'all to see the detail. So I copied a section from the full size photo (my originals are always huge like 3k and 4k pixels.

I think I got a decent result. I thought I got too much black at the top of the eye but I now realize in the pic, that's his eye lashes getting in the way. lol! I'm glad, I really didn't want to redo it. I like the feathering of the iris and the pupil - horse's eye colors aren't flat. They remind me of the stuff inside the clear marbles that looks like it's just floating there. The iris does the same thing. So I'm going to stick with this.

That will be enough for me tonight.