Poll: How important is historical accuracy to you?

[Stephan]

"Couldn't give a monkey's. I mainly (or only) paint fantasy or sci-fi"

I do not understand that thread. SF may be also need a historical research.
Enterprise will have a lot of documented uniforms over the year. Also Aliens need a lot of research to be accurate.
And so on.
The historicals will laugh about the sfpainters, but the youth will get mostly the first contact with figures through
Sorry for my bad english hope you understand what I want.

 

[Babelfish]

"Couldn't give a monkey's. I mainly (or only) paint fantasy or sci-fi"

I do not understand that thread. SF may be also need a historical research.
Enterprise will have a lot of documented uniforms over the year. Also Aliens need a lot of research to be accurate.
And so on.
The historicals will laugh about the sfpainters, but the youth will get mostly the first contact with figures through
Sorry for my bad english hope you understand what I want.

Very fair point Stephan, you are absolutely right. But when I created the poll I had historical figures more in mind rather than fantasy/sci-fi stuff, where I think it's fair to say that "Star Trek" uniforms and the like notwithstanding, in broad terms there's more scope for a "free rein" and imagination than is the case with historicals, where debate and disagreement seem to be far more common.

I didn't mean to be disparaging or disrespectful towards the fantasy & sf guys, and I apologise if that's how it came across. And I for one certainly don't laugh at them. There are some incredibly talented and inspiring fantasy & scifi painters out there, and I even dabble in that side of the hobby myself from time to time. And as you say, that's how most younger painters start off these days, which can only be a good thing.

- Steve

 

[Forté]

I won't mention the research I put into trying to find the colours used to paint Alien. Needless to say I gave up and ended up with a mixture of green, black, flesh, and metallic which was fun. I also had a look at WWII RAF pilot uniforms when painting my orc pilot bust for inspiration.

 

[Oda]

Very well put, Paul and Andrew.

Oda.

 

[Viking Bob]

I have read through this tonight, I have gone for answer 2.
Yes I do buy on impulse and if I have to do a bit of work on it to bring it up to historical accuracy, then so be it. To me that's half the fun, painting is the other half.
Just my thoughts.

 

[JasonB]

1 or 2.
If I can fix it and its otherwise well done, I will accept something thats less than accurate and take care of it myself. If its just crazy wrong AND not an excellent piece otherwise, I pass it by. Since 99.9 percent of things I work on are subjects that I have pretty good knowledge of, "could have been" or "never say never" really doesn't do it for me. The one thing I can't stand is when a figure is done of a specific subject from a known photo or reference, and its changed or done incorrectly. I just bought one of those because I liked the pose and the subject, but the things I knew were wrong with it were right there in the photo that its based on, but had been changed for reasons I still don't understand. I still don't understand why more sculptors or companies don't post their in progress stuff to get critiques or input on possible changes before they release it. There is a great resource of knowledgeable people on this site, and asking for their input is only going to improve the product. If the sculptor doesn't care if something in particular is not 100 percent right, they can choose not to take the advice, but asking for opinions after something is complete is kinda useless.

 

[akaryu]

Well said Jason! That would however need some common sense and, more important still, civilized and polite interaction between participants on this forum. Remember the names-calling and dirt throwing some of us "rivet-counters" got not so long ago, now people are stuck with an expensive Hindenburg bust with the wrong picklehaube pike to mention just one. Nobody knows everything on all subjects, but there is always a PF member who might have just the right info in his book cabinet. Some of us so-called rivet counters now prefer to keep their opinion on an incorrect piece to themselves!
Piet

 

[Martin64]

Some of us so-called rivet counters now prefer to keep their opinion on an incorrect piece to themselves!
Piet

Well said - that could be a start of another poll "Why is hobby related feedback - regardless if backed up by facts or without - taken as a personal offence (by some producers and their groupies) ?"
Whatever...silence is golden

Cheers, Martin

 

[krow113]

I think historical accuracy is important as well as anatomical accuracy, not necessarily in that order.
What is not important , to me , is the loss of modelling enjoyment that can occur when one becomes obsessed with either of the stated accuracy issues.
I can 'feel' when the detail in question has been researched enough and when I get to that point I can 'settle' the matter in my mind and quite simply get to the rendering of said detail and the modelling enjoyment that comes with.
I call that 'due diligence'.
It took 6 years to get 'Ypres 1914' finished , not working right through of course , but many stoppages were due to researching items and waiting for more applicable accessories to arrive , etc. If you go to Britmodeller you will see the work go through to finish and the comments made, some of which I heeded, AFTER researching the comment , some I did not. Because , quite frankly , enough is enough , I put due diligence on the entire piece as well as individual details so I am content with the outcome.

 

[Andy Garringer]

I voted for #2 but I, like some others, am between 1&2. I'm not going to condemn a piece or totally bash it because it is "inaccurate" to me but having a Sioux warrior wearing a Crow's bonnet wouldn't do it for me. While on the other hands the same figure/bust could be simply sculpted amazing well and I will still enjoy it.

 

[TADATSUGU]

Well said - that could be a start of another poll "Why is hobby related feedback - regardless if backed up by facts or without - taken as a personal offence (by some producers and their groupies) ?"
Whatever...silence is golden
Martin

Silence maybe golden but we all lose out on other members knowledge as a result.
It's often said "if you don't like it don't buy it" (as if we would anyway!). But what I don't get is why those people who take personal offence at a piece of knowledge being given care so much anyway. Surely a better motto would be "if you don't care that it's inaccurate; just buy it and don't get involved in mud slinging with those who do".

 

[Gellso]

A perfectionists life is never a happy one.

 

[smudger1960]

I like historical accuracy,but when someone tries to tell me theres 3400 fringes on a particular flag and I've only got3200 then I get pissed off

and believe me,those people are out there

 

[TADATSUGU]

I like historical accuracy,but when someone tries to tell me theres 3400 fringes on a particular flag and I've only got3200 then I get pissed off

and believe me,those people are out there

Easy to ridicule someone else pointing out errors by using hyperbole. I get equally annoyed by those who won't even listen to criticism of major blunders no matter how much evidence is given to support them.

 

[Oda]

Hyperbole is always a bad advisor.

Oda.

 

[Huw63]

I like historical accuracy,but when someone tries to tell me theres 3400 fringes on a particular flag and I've only got3200 then I get pissed off

and believe me,those people are out there

For previews of releases I think constructive criticism with supporting evidence directly to a manufacturer is fair. Publicly slating a manufacturer immediately and not citing references isn't fair in my opinion as these manufacturers are commissioning sculptures and box art which is helping this hobby flourish - I've several times discreetly contacted manufacturers and they've come back with thanks.

That's my final thought on the matter.

Cheers

Huw

 

[TADATSUGU]

For previews of releases I think constructive criticism with supporting evidence directly to a manufacturer is fair. Huw

I could normally agree with that Huw, but I don't see this as a manufacturer's site. It is the un-informed modeler that I am concerned about.

I don't consider it unreasonable to ask for a sculptor to do research, or to be concerned whether he is being presented with accurate product from his sculptors. I feel more sorry for the guy with precious little money to spend on the hobby, unwittingly buying something that he later finds out to be inaccurate.

As for citing references. I have done that here in the past and only been called a know-it-all (together with much more prosaic names) for doing so. Just look at the current thread 'Last advance of the Eagle', to see what abuse a simple comment causes. Admittedly, I purposely chose not specify what my concern was on that thread this time, as I had already pointed it out exhaustively on two previous releases, where I did cite numerous references.
All those (same) people now ranting on the "advance" thread were involved with the previous "discussions", and know full well what I am saying; but instead of citing any counter reference themselves, to prove me wrong, still see it more fitting to throw personal insults and illogically based pointless challenges, purely, it seems to me, because they don't like someone having a conflicting viewpoint.
This is more likely to be the downfall of this site, rather than so called "rivet counters" who usually get all the flack.

 

[Huw63]

I could normally agree with that Huw, but I don't see this as a manufacturer's site. It is the un-informed modeler that I am concerned about.

I don't consider it unreasonable to ask for a sculptor to do research, or to be concerned whether he is being presented with accurate product from his sculptors. I feel more sorry for the guy with precious little money to spend on the hobby, unwittingly buying something that he later finds out to be inaccurate.

As for citing references. I have done that here in the past and only been called a know-it-all (together with much more prosaic names) for doing so. Just look at the current thread 'Last advance of the Eagle', to see what abuse a simple comment causes. Admittedly, I purposely chose not specify what my concern was on that thread this time, as I had already pointed it out exhaustively on two previous releases, where I did cite numerous references.
All those (same) people now ranting on the "advance" thread were involved with the previous "discussions", and know full well what I am saying; but instead of citing any counter reference themselves, to prove me wrong, still see it more fitting to throw personal insults and illogically based pointless challenges, purely, it seems to me, because they don't like someone having a conflicting viewpoint.
This is more likely to be the downfall of this site, rather than so called "rivet counters" who usually get all the flack.

This is really my last word.

1. I think it fair for manufacturers to advise the community of new products - this pays for the site and is, after all, only one part of the wider forum.
2. I think it unfair not to quote references and I think it unfair not to contact manufacturers discretely first as they are taking a commercial risk with every commission.
3. I think to agree to disagree is fair and to accept that given a fact a different interpretation of the same fact is fair (see Rorsach diagrams for instance).
4. Personal abuse is uncalled for.

Cheers

Huw

 

[Martin64]

The problem with quoting references in the aftermath of an announcement of a new release seems to be that the manufacturer already has taken the commercial risk and the commission piece is ready for the mould or the first castings are under way.
So still the quoting of references and commenting on inaccuracies is not welcome at the moment the announcement is made and might be regarded as unfair. Contacting the manufacturer in private and keeping the problem secret from other members and potential customers does not seem fair to me as well. The more as it will not have any consequences on the final product in most cases (see above) and nobody else can learn from it.
All in all I think that anybody who puts up his work or new product on display on PF should say if he wants to have feedback about accuracy, anatomy etc. or if he just wants to show his work. This could easily be acchieved by a button like the "NSFW"-tag.
For example "JFD"= just for display and "OFD"=open for discussion. This could help to avoid the clashes about feedback and accuracy when not wanted.
Cheers, Martin

 

[akaryu]

That sounds like a very sound idea! Ideally, considering we are here among friends or at least among enthusiasts sharing a same passion, a sculptor or manufacturer could share the creation proces with us, like do Pavol "Offo" and Andy Cairns do to name just a few, in order to have input on anatomy and historical accuracy before the casting starts. For those manufacturers who like to "surprise" us with their finished product, I see no elegant solution to point out eventual errors.
Cheers,
Piet