Controversial! +13 Question about brushes...

[pmfs]

Hi!

I started paint figures in 2005 and since then I use W&N serie 7 because is the best in market.
Since I know myself I love animals, sometimes more than I love humans... and not want to be a hypocrite i just want to ask you if brands as W&N, Davinci, Rosemary and Raphael or others respect animal rights?
I ask this because a while ago unfortunately I saw a disturbing video about concentration camps of Marta´s in China where those MF stun animals by hitting them with a stick...and then take them the skin... in a horrible show....
I know that many of these brands use Siberian Kolinsky´s hair to make the brushes, and would like to know is if these brands purchase materials to make the brushes to these industry of criminals who unfortunately mistreat animals in acts of a cruel inhumanity in a show absolutely shocking...
Hope not truly!...

Cheers,
Pedro

 

[Mark S]

Hi Pedro, I'm glad to hear you are concerned about the source of materials you use. It's only such awareness by end users that can change these abhorrent practises.
The Winsor & Newton website ~ http://www.winsornewton.com/main.aspx?PageID=11

They state on that site that ~ "All our natural hair products are obtained from sustainable sources and are by-products of other industries. Animals are not sourced for the sole use of our brush-making."


Of course we don't know what those other industries are and what there ethical standards might be but at least they are claiming that they have nothing to do with the type of cruel abuse that you mentioned.

 

[pmfs]

I read also Mark, but as you mention: "we dont know what those other indudtries are..." that is my concern.

cheers,
Pedro.

 

[Mark S]

Have you tried contacting them and simply asking for more detail on the matter? They do invite further questions on that liked page regarding environmental concerns and their products.
I'd give that a go...see what happens.

I just sent them an email asking for more info on the matter and I'll let you know if they get back to me....cheers.

 

[pmfs]

Thanks Mark!
I think we who cares about this matter have right to know the true - just do not want to contribute (with this hobby) to the continued slaughter of those helpless animals...

Pedro.

 

[DEL]

Thanks for this guys. I have to admit much to my shame I hadn't given any thought to how the manufacturers of the brushes I use source their materials.
From this point forward I'll do my best to identify before I buy.
Not a comfortable thought for many of us.
Cheers
Derek

 

[pte1643]

Thanks for this guys. I have to admit much to my shame I hadn't given any thought to how the manufacturers of the brushes I use source their materials.

I've got to say I've never really given it much thought either.

We're all quite diligent when it comes to food, clothing, paper etc, but paint brushes certainly weren't something that stood out as a concern.

Like Del, above, I shall certainly give it more thought in future.

Mark.

 

[Jamie Stokes]

Good question,
and while the ethics and depiction of the painted figures (nudity, cruelty, highly controversial, or emotional subjects) the materials in our hands escape our attention.....

The more I think about this, the more I like it.

And Hopefully Mark gets a response.

Cheers

Jamie

 

[Captain Sprout]

Hi Pedro, I'm glad to hear you are concerned about the source of materials you use. It's only such awareness by end users that can change these abhorrent practises.
The Winsor & Newton website ~ http://www.winsornewton.com/main.aspx?PageID=11

They state on that site that ~ "All our natural hair products are obtained from sustainable sources and are by-products of other industries. Animals are not sourced for the sole use of our brush-making."


Of course we don't know what those other industries are and what there ethical standards might be but at least they are claiming that they have nothing to do with the type of cruel abuse that you mentioned.

I believe Kolinsky sable (the best stuff) is a by product of the fur trade. Siberian weasels are trapped and killed for fur. It's not an animal that is easy to farm so its not quite the same as fur farming, but the animals are being killed for beauty reasons and the hair we use in our brushes is a by product of the fur trade. It's effectively a fur coat on a stick. The reason they say it is sustainable is that the animals are wild and killed by trapping rather than being raised in the sort of fur farms you can find pictures of on line and highlighted in the first post (if you want to dive into it the passing off of cats and dogs, skinned alive in China, is the way cheap fur gets to market for all those nice looking cheap coats people want to buy).

Common sable and some so called Kolinsky sable (if a brush maker doesn't tell you, they are probably using the cheaper version) will generally come from animals like martens who are farmed. It's a cruel industry where animals are battered to death and often skinned alive. The fur trade doesn't care how an animal dies, its quicker to batter them than to bother with gassing etc and most of the countries who farm these animals have no laws to stop cruelty.

So its actually somewhat 'nicer', if you like, to use high priced Kolinsky sable as at least the animal has had a home in the wild before being dispatched for people to wear it.

On a similar note, camel hair brushes will often come from ponies..a by product of the horse meat trade.

I think if you want to use these brushes (and I do, not camel hair though) the best idea is to buy the best ones that have the best chance of coming from a wild animal and care and look after them as best you can. Bottom line though is that the 'other industries' are using the animals for beauty fur..the hairs from an animal's tail are a by product of raising it for its skin. That's how W&N can make the claim they do. A more ethical choice is not to use them. Fur isn't a necessary product for clothing for most people, at the end of the day.

 

[DEL]

Food for thought, I'm by no means squeamish and I'll eat pretty much anything with a face except a clock, but with my food I do like to know source and conditions.
This I have to say has me feeling very uncomfortable. The point above is well made, buy the best you can and take care of them.

 

[Mark S]

Where did the hair from those Tesco horses go anyway?
In the bloody burgers, I suppose!......keep an eye out for cheap Tesco brushes anyway and cheap bungee jumping sinew.

 

[pmfs]

I know what happens in China, South Korea and other countries...and the way those MF treat animals. As human i have shame.
The point is the hobby and the materials used to make brushes, nothing else matters right now. If you want discuss other things please open a new thread. Hope you understand!

 

[pmfs]

Other option we have to paint miniatures, syntetic brushes?

 

[pte1643]

I have some Premier P41 nylon brushes... They're actually very good.

I've had them for so long they actually say "W. Germany" on the handle.

I've certainly had my moneys worth, and they're still going strong now, although they have lost the points a little.

 

[Captain Sprout]

I know what happens in China, South Korea and other countries...and the way those MF treat animals. As human i have shame.
The point is the hobby and the materials used to make brushes, nothing else matters right now. If you want discuss other things please open a new thread. Hope you understand!

The point I guess is that those materials are used to make brushes..horse hair doesn't come from people trimming horses tails it comes from an industry slaughtering horses for food (legitimately or not).

 

[pmfs]

I dont eat meat regularly, my diet is vegetable-based, soy, eggs, mushrooms, rice, pasta, and other stuff like that and lots of fresh fruits, milk, wine, beer and fish, until now i cant avoid it.
I never in my life eat horse.

 

[socko47]

I just watched Carson Van Osten on video at the 7:37minute mark he talks about Vallejo brushes and they have a farm for their animals where they shave the animals - so it is sustainable. And they are cheaper than W&N #7's.

 

[Captain Sprout]

I just watched Carson Van Osten on video at the 7:37minute mark he talks about Vallejo brushes and they have a farm for their animals where they shave the animals - so it is sustainable. And they are cheaper than W&N #7's.

Interesting, their website says they use the hair from the Kolinsky Tajmyr Sable and it comes from tail hair (male tails apparently have a better spring to the hair than female tails, who knew).

I guess it is possible to take tail hair from a farmed animal without killing it (but its not that likely, simply in my view, to keep these animals for their tails alone but perhaps the economics do work) but the best weasel hair is apparently from wild animals (they grow a better coat).

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/modelismo/faqs/3

In the spirit of asking directly as above, I sent Vallejo an email to ask if its farmed, trapped or live animal harvesting that they use.

 

[Mark S]

Please if anyone can think of any brush manufacturer we haven't already sent an email to,( and lets face it ,it must run into the hundreds) please feel free to send them an email whilst it remains popular to do so.....all the best!

 

[pmfs]

Hi!
The pursuit of the ideal brush continues and after having seen the video of Mr. Carson have been opting for vallejo brushes, P518 (Kolinsky) and PF20 (Camel hair) series.
A few days ago, I sent an email to the Spanish manufacturer Escoda and the response is amazing and clear about how the brushes are made, not only his brand... I liked the sincerity and the alternative proposed by the new series of brushes that are develop in the coming months.
As for shaving the animal may already have been referred to the quality of the final product?

The emails:
Formulario enviado mediante la página web de Escoda:
Empresa: Scalesandhistory not a company, only a blog
Nombre: Pedro Sousa
E-mail: [email protected]
Teléfono:
País: Portugal
Comentarios: Hola! I'm a Portuguese modeler and all these years i used brushes from Winson & Newton series 7 but now I gave up because the brand does not respect animal rights. I found escoda and after some information I decided to contact you to see if the animal marta´s hair that your company uses to manufacture brushes 1208 and 1212 are obtained by "legal means at source" as in the case of brushes from Vallejo where animals are shaved in a farm without anything bad happen to them. Gracias! Un saludo, Pedro

Ecoda reply:
Dear Pedro,
Thanks for your email and your interest in our fine art brushes all completely made by hand in our factory in Barcelona since 1933. My grandfather started then making probably one of the best brush in the market and today the third generation we are still trying to improve the quality to give the best to the artist.
Regarding your question, hair suppliers get the hair from the tail of the animal once the animal is sacrificed at the end of the cycle of his life time. Sables are farm rised for this purpose. Then they must be sacrificed like any other animal that the human being use to eat or to make leather products, etc. If they were shaved, this would be worst for the animal.
Sorry if this information is something you did not expect but all kolinsky brushes come from the same source. We have to be sincere and clear with this issue that concerns some artists like you.
On the other, you might be interested in a new synthetic brush that we have devolopped. This is called VERSATIL series, which performs like a real kolinsky. That will be unique in the market and should be available at art stores in the next couple months. If you follow us on Facebook www.facebook.com/escoda1933, we will keep you informed.
Thanks again for your interest and support to the Escoda brand. All the best.


Cheers,
Pedro.