questions on 3D printing and effect on the hobby industry

[JackG]

I'm a member of a few hobby forums, but this site is the only one I know of that has a section dedicated to 3D printing - so hope to get feed back from those more knowledgeable in the field, but other opinions are also welcomed.

Many believe that eventually we will all own a 3D printer, which I believe to be true. Some also think that down the road, we will no longer buy model kits, but simply download the design, for a price, and print out our own model parts that will produce a complete kit.

So main questions are:
1.) Wouldn't model manufacturers lose money if they decided to sell their product this way?
2.) How can they ensure that a design is used only once by the purchaser?
3.) How easily can the scale of a CAD design be changed, therefore allowing the owner not only to create multiple kits from one purchase, but different scales?

One final thought, I think 3D printing will have more of an impact on how model manufacturers produce their product for the market. It could replace injection molding and resin casting, and not how they sell their product, though I can see them selling a CAD design to correct a kit part.

regards,
Jack

 

[RKapuaala]

I'm a member of a few hobby forums, but this site is the only one I know of that has a section dedicated to 3D printing - so hope to get feed back from those more knowledgeable in the field, but other opinions are also welcomed.

Many believe that eventually we will all own a 3D printer, which I believe to be true. Some also think that down the road, we will no longer buy model kits, but simply download the design, for a price, and print out our own model parts that will produce a complete kit.

So main questions are:
1.) Wouldn't model manufacturers lose money if they decided to sell their product this way?
2.) How can they ensure that a design is used only once by the purchaser?
3.) How easily can the scale of a CAD design be changed, therefore allowing the owner not only to create multiple kits from one purchase, but different scales?

One final thought, I think 3D printing will have more of an impact on how model manufacturers produce their product for the market. It could replace injection molding and resin casting, and not how they sell their product, though I can see them selling a CAD design to correct a kit part.

regards,
Jack

Jack,
Currently and possibly up to a decade from now, the affordable desktop 3D printer isn't up to the task of printing out quantities of 3D models in the time and at the price for materials that would make it viable as a mass production alternatives.
The material is too fragile for consumer use and it costs too much and to be a desktop printer you have to sacrifice space for the build platform where the printing is done. The there is the need to clean the materials.

That being said, eventually those obstacles will be over come and you will be able to print your own highly detailed models at an affordable price using your basic computer (which might be a quantum computer by that time).
Model companies will do as the film and music industry has already done; they will build in security measures into the software and into their 3D files that make them one use only.
I think when that happens Model companies will be looking at windfall profits after retooling because they won't have near the overhead and in fact they can afford to offer the obscure model that isn't all that popular but to a handful of individuals.
Keep in mind, that even today it isn't hard to counterfeit a model kit. People do it all the time. Some of them are just resin kits (poor to really good) while others are mold injected. Mold injection units aren't that expensive any more.
I don't see that counterfeiting will ever go away.
Scaleing a model once it has changed is as simple as 3 mouse clicks. I rescale a lot of my figures at http://scalehumans.com/orderform?NGF which is my 1:20 scale page and http://scalehumans.com/orderform?7-8TH which is my 7/8ths scale page. I'm even experimenting with 1:32 scale right now. And have done some in 1:8ths scale, 1:6th scale, 1:12 scale and 1:10 scale.
There is very little to do to rescale. I use free software to do all my work sculpting to remeshing and rescaling is all free software. That stuff will always be available.
By the way, nothing will ever replace casting or injection molding because these two techniques for reproducing parts are not just used in with plastic materials they are used for concrete and metal. Those are materials that so far are best cast the way they have always been cast.

 

[JackG]

RK - thanks for your detailed response.
It will be interesting to see how mainstream model companies utilize this technology. If they do sell files to customers, how the copyright will be implemented and an a adjusted price to reflect this problem, will be something to address indeed.

regards,
Jack

 

[Tecumsea]

Thanks for your detailed response, I hate seeing interesting questions going unanswered, so thanks for taking the time to respond. I saw an interesting demonstration on TV recently where a presented stepped into a photo booth which had a multitude of cameras picturing him from every angle while he stood motionless. A few hours later out popped a 12" reproduction of him from a 3D printer. There seemed to be a lot of cleaning off required. I seem to remember that it cost about £120 and the booth was going to be installed in Harrods?

Keith

 

[Tonton]

Keith, I think the demo you’re referring to was edited from the following:

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/video/2013/oct/23/3d-printing-statue-come-to-life-video

This should give you the chance to review the technology in more detail.

Jeff

 

[Tecumsea]

Hi Jeff, yes you are quite right this is the programme that I saw. Watching again it is in Selfridges and the cost is £159. (Proof of my crap memory)

Thanks for posting the link I think it will be of interest to other PF members as well.

Best regards.........Keith

 

[alanmac]

The one they are trying out with the supermarket Asda seems a lot more portable. It may take more time but I think it looks easier to install and can imagine it having greater appeal as such.

http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...printing-britain-asda-supermarket-trial-video

Alan

 

[mash3d]

I know this thread is a bit old but I have a reason today for putting some input into it.
I went by the only half way decent hobby shop in my area today.
By half way decent I mean they have a pretty good range of paints, tools, supplies, and a few kits. Not many but at least a variety.
Mind you when I say in my area that's within 75 miles.
Well they had a going out of business sign hung up today.
After they close I will have to scrounge for supplies at either hobby lobby, Michael s or mail order everything.

3D printing is the only way this hobby will survive. Injection molded kits have just become way to expensive to tool up for and to ship. At one time they were cheap but I think the market is shrinking, less kids and adults building. Over time they will simple become to expensive to produce.

Eventually the costs of a 3d printers will come down in price for consumers to own but I doubt most people will want to bother with owning one. Not to mention learning the skill of 3d modeling and sculpting it self.

I think in the very near future you will find individual modelers who will sell their figures, and even larger scale models like tanks, aircraft etc, over the internet. This is happening now but in the future I think 3d printing will allow more custom types of figures to be produced. You will be able to order a specific figure, in a specific pose with a particular uniform and equipment. You can even go so far as to be able to make specific ethic types and facial features or expressions.

 

[JackG]

mash3d, I think that is a good point you make, prices really have gone up and so have postage rates due to the reduction in general mail delivery that use to be used by the masses. At the same time though, quality of kits has really improved, and all kinds of rare subjects are being released, so the market is still must be there? I wonder if it really is just a small number of modelers with huge stashes growing under their roof?

regards,
Jack

 

[RKapuaala]

I model the OR&L rail road and have been doing so for a long time. Partly because I love the look of the old steam engines and rolling stock, but mostly because my Grandfathers first name was Kapuaalahoonioniikealahao because he was born in Dillinghams private coach on the OR&L line between Honolulu and Aiea. His name meant Child that disturbed the railroad because as soon as my Great Grandmother delivered him, the train was stopped and they got off.
As I got more and more in to my hobby I began to notice that there were no figures out there representing ethnicly correct people for my layout (Chinese, Japanese, Hawaiian) and so I began sculpting my own and people requested copies so I started casting my own. I don't make a lot of money, just enough to cover my costs and maybe a new tool or two along the way, but in return I have a diverse collection of figures in the correct scale and ethnicity for my rail road. I even have figures of the actual people who worked on and operated the railroad. What I lack in cash rewards I get back in the quality of realism it adds to my railroad.

4 or my most popular 7/8ths figures standing next to my life steam model of the small engine Kauila. The conductor was actually an individual that worked in Tennese as did the engineer. I model them because I had no pictures of Hawaiian conductors and because the engineer was a spitting image of maternal Grandfather. After building up a collection of Ethnic figures for my own, I started sculpting subjects for other railroads that interested me as well as historical figures.

7/8ths King Kalakaua has his own royal coach (still under construction)
The trouble is, that he was sculpted in clay and is only available in 7/8ths while the conductor and engineer above were sculpted digitally and can be made available in any scale. This is particular good for me since I model in HO, O, 1:20.32 scale, 7/8ths scale and have started doing 1:8 and 1:6 even though I will never be able to afford the equipment for those larger scales unless I build it myself.

 

[Comic-Club]

Hi I'm new to this site but verry interessted in 3D Printing and need some explications if Possible.
@ RKapuaala
Where do print ? I have found so far just one valuable adress. And it is in Hong Kong :-(
When you write 7/8 will this say that is near lifescale ?

 

[bagelman1952]

Maybe a bit off topic but relevant to some of the comments made above. I find it interesting when people talk about the cost of our hobby whether it be plastic tanks or airplanes, railways, gaming or figures and busts. Yes it is expensive but I am not convinced that in real terms it is much different that 45 years ago when I really got into the hobby. In the early 70's I was an assistant shop manager in Beatties of London (one of the major model and railway shops in the UK). I also did all the display models for their chain of shops. I think my salary was something like 20-22 pounds a week. I had just got married and my rent on the bedsit we lived in was about 8 pounds a week. A Tamiya 35th scale tank kit was about two and half pounds and a metal Hincliffe or Series 77 figure considerably more (this is all from my aged memory not from old catalogues so may be a bit off). Humbrol paint was pretty cheap but the newer paints like Pelican Plaka and oils were very expensive. To top it all in comparison to todays offerings the castings were not of the best quality and generally required a lot of clean up. So my main point is that taking the level of my salary modelling then was pretty expensive. Certainly something like Taisho or the Series 77 Landsnecht was not something I could ever afford without major saving. On current salaries I do not think the cost of our hobby has risen greatly and there has certainly been an improvement in the quality of casting and also in the variation and accuracy of figures/models produced. Agreed we do not have the 'pocket money' kits now but that is because young people have alternative that we did not have. That said. I think there will always be the serious modellers who will create even if there were no manufacturers. I think the demise of the local model shop is as a result of society changes and the availability of online shopping and the high cost of business rates and rent and is no different than any other 'local' specialist business.

 

[Michael Mahoney]

Bagelman is correct in his previous post on all points. I started in metal figures in 1978 and had to be selective in my purchases due to cost. The main difference I see today is model shops have gone the way of bookstores. Now retired, I live two hours from the nearest Hobby Lobby so my purchases of kits and supplies are all internet. I miss the days of browsing and finding the odd treasure, but those days are gone.
I have seen many figure makers go out of business due to death or lack of sales. Floquil paint is now gone.
My advice is to buy the figures you want when you see them - they may disappear tomorrow.
My other chief regret is the dwindling number of shows and young people getting into the hobby. They will keep it alive.
Keep on painting, folks.
Michael Mahoney

 

[RKapuaala]

@Comic-Club
I use Shapeways at Shapeways.com they have facilities in Denmark as well as in the U.S. and Iceland.
7/8th scale is [ 7/8 inches = 12 inches ] or 1:13.7142 scale. So, no it is not near life scale. The average size of a 7/8th scale figure is 5 inches or 12.7 cm or 127 mm.

 

[zodiac]

The quality of prints is very rough. I haven't seen one decent (by our hobby standards) printout that doesn't need a complete clean up and retooling. The plastic used is like that soapy flexible material used by MARX years ago. The software can do anything the printing end has to catch up somehow, it may not be able to.

 

[mash3d]

The shapeways prints are a bit rough.
I've seen some very good prints done by other companies but they usually cost a bit more to get done.
http://www.clayboxstudio.com/3D-Prints.html
http://moddler.com/portfolio

 

[Comic-Club]

Well you can see the Quality of "my" printer, the Poison Ivy is a 3D Print-out.

 

[Comic-Club]

The Print-out that I get are most ready to cast!

 

[zodiac]

Comic club what is the printer and material you use?

 

[RKapuaala]

Shapeways has improved and my last series of prints were easy enough to clean. You can't beat the price really.