questions on 3D printing and effect on the hobby industry

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I'll be the first to admit I'm not a sculptor. My only exposure to it firsthand was in art college when studying the human form. We did some wax figure classes, as well as an assignment on relief sculpting in clay.

From that experience, I think I can see a certain point that Wayne is making - that is, computer generated sculpting is less physically hands on by the artist. Sure, one still has to touch keys on the keyboard, it takes time, and certainly is still an expression of creativity, but you are not directly touching your work until it is printed out. Might seem a bit sterile, but that could be the way society is heading these days. How often has it happened you are in setting somewhere with another person, and either they, you, or both, are preoccupied with the iphone and no verbal conversation takes place?

regards,
Jack
 
From that experience, I think I can see a certain point that Wayne is making - that is, computer generated sculpting is less physically hands on by the artist. Sure, one still has to touch keys on the keyboard, it takes time, and certainly is still an expression of creativity, but you are not directly touching your work until it is printed out. Might seem a bit sterile, but that could be the way society is heading these days. How often has it happened you are in setting somewhere with another person, and either they, you, or both, are preoccupied with the iphone and no verbal conversation takes place?

Hi Jack,

Nobody sculpts digitally with a keyboard. Using a cintiq is 99% as good as slapping clay on by hand, pressure, and many adjustments can be made. Wonderful piece of kit. I've never found digitally sculpting sterile, just different in a positive way. It's one of the best creative tools around. Still there's a way to go with printing. Illustrators have been using tablets for decades now.
 
]Thanks Jack,...At least I got a little backup......Wayne

Wayne why don't you just explore a bit, be open minded rather than look for validation for your anger.
 
Zodiac.......if that is what your name is.......Are YOU OK?........
I simply expressed my opinion on a subject that you and I do not agree on.I'm not angry about anything.All you have to do is look at my original posts and I can't take those words back.
But you go off on a long drawn out spiel to explain your point...Why?...........At least I'll sign my name.........Wayne
 
I was referring to Jacks post about sculpting using a keyboard, that's all. No I'm not a 'salesman' for the record, I was making a contribution to the thread, that's all, sharing my experience with 3D so far. Your opinion of 3D digital sculpting is wrong, you should try it first and see what you think, you would probably enjoy it being a sculptor.
 
Another way of using 3D in the hobby would be fully rendered scenes like box dioramas. There is superb rendering software now that can create a cross between paintings and box dioramas, also you wouldn't have to lug the box around, you'd just need a good sized laptop to display it or overhead screen.
 
My high school son is taking an engineering class and has (3) 3D printers available, from a $800 model to a $20k unit. He is learning AutoDesk for Mac, but not sculpting programs. He said that the resin used for the high end printer is expensive, or so he was told. Area 11 logo.

This blows me away! Thanks for this posting and the threads.

Tony S
 

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This thread has got very heavy, to be honest so heavy that it as put me off even looking, I see Wayne completely and even after bowing gracefully you keep poking, I do not see why.

If you can sculpt brilliant, if your good enough to produce the goods, great I will pay you, any material.
I love art and expression, but it ain't going to help sell the product if you can't meet the market on what the market wants. It does seem that the more you tell us we are against you (digital) the more you justify the argument.

The point being, it has to be good enough to sell, expressions of pieces of wood and stone are to be respected but cannot be compared, this is a figure (generally miniature) forum not a sculptors forum. There must be loads carving and stone carving sites to express the passion, I suspect you have never painted a 54mm eye with expression, the highlight showing direction for the final piece.

For the moment, if I had the choice- which I do, pay a hand sculptor or 3d. My money will always pay the hand sculptor, however I am fully prepared and if there is a 3d sculptor that can produce me a figure of my choice for 2014 with direction to print I will fully eat my words.
Unfortunately the art of the military figure is now being lost under said technical expression where yet I have seen not an ounce of comparable creativity. I question where I deliver the box of Historex parts to and ask for boridino to be replicated.
And I would like painted please, a vital piece that seems to be neglected.

Best wishes
 
I'm sorry Graham your post doesn't make sense, it is late in the UK and maybe you're a little tired and emotional etc. I kind of get that your advising me to go to another site, for carving? Because the more I post on the 3d topic the more you are 'against me'? Is this right? have I got the gist? Also this is not a sculpting site eh? What is it then? A dating site? Everywhere I look there is sculpture!!!!! You obviously haven't read any of my posts on this topic or you wouldn't have said what you did. All I'm doing is contributing to the topic. To be honest I don't care to know what you would pay for and what you wouldn't pay for that's your business. This isn't affecting the art of the figure in a negative way. If anything it will enhance things greatly.
 
And as said Zodiac, my response wasn't to you but thank you for the compliment.
I have been called worse, I believe it is not the first time or most likely the last.
The bitterness and ease you can judge somebody, through a disagreement does amaze me though
 
Either way Graham the whole thread has been reduced to a waste of time, if you found the thread heavy to begin with why did you wade in? You were a bit flamey. Have you done any 3D work or seen it done? Whoever you were replying to as Wayne got a bit 'angry' at me it is reasonable to assume you were talking to me as I was trying to explain 3d to Wayne too, if I missed this then apologies all round. Also I wasn't being 'tekkie' I just assumed people were familiar with the basic printing processes as this isn't exactly exclusive magic information. For the life of me I just don't understand why each time this topic is raised people on here get very polarized and judgmental. There seems to be not the merest hint of curiosity just instant hostility to anything perceived as 'tekkie' then the subtle insults begin and before long there's a playground spat. I made a valid contribution at the start about 3D printing that's all, not expecting the idiotic blowback. It would have been nice to just have an adult discussion on here. As a business man you should be open and aware of any new technology that is related to your field, not only software but materials etc. Even if you don't have a need for it something like this should pique your curiosity. As I understand it this is a hobby forum and most figure people on here don't have a need for this technology nor ever will. It's more for manufacturers and those who actually sculpt and make patterns professionally. If the costs and overall quality of printing come down then things may change, that's progress. It will never replace traditional sculpting or casting that's one myth out of the water. comic club came on and showed us some fantastic print outs, I learned from him, this is what it should be about, sharing and learning.
 
Well Wayne since you are addressing me let me start out by responding to all your issues.
This thread has got very heavy, to be honest so heavy that it as put me off even looking, I see Wayne completely and even after bowing gracefully you keep poking, I do not see why.
I don't feel like your characterization of my interaction with Wayne is fair or accurate. We were having a conversation and as often happens in conversations people have to clarify themselfs if they feel the other party doesn't understand them. I don't consider that poking any more than the continual assertion by Wayne, and apparently you know that 3D scupting is inferior to your 'Old School' methods. Try to remember this forum is specifically set up for 3D sculpting not for 'Old School' sculpting, so if you come into this forum making assertions of this kind you better expect to be schooled and you better expect enthusiasts like me to offer 'arguments' How would you feel if I walked into a sculpting forum you were following and condemed poly clays and wax the same way Michael Angelo would have?

If you can sculpt brilliant, if your good enough to produce the goods, great I will pay you, any material.
Don't understand?

I love art and expression, but it ain't going to help sell the product if you can't meet the market on what the market wants. It does seem that the more you tell us we are against you (digital) the more you justify the argument.
I'm not sure exactly what you are saying here, perhaps you might explain yourself a little better.

The point being, it has to be good enough to sell, expressions of pieces of wood and stone are to be respected but cannot be compared, this is a figure (generally miniature) forum not a sculptors forum. There must be loads carving and stone carving sites to express the passion, I suspect you have never painted a 54mm eye with expression, the highlight showing direction for the final piece.
I have never painted a figure that is exactly that size 2 1/8th inches. I have painted plenty of 3" and 3/4" figures as well as 5" and 12" figures so I'm not understanding how that supports your 'point'. Also you are on a 3D forumn not one for any other medium.

For the moment, if I had the choice- which I do, pay a hand sculptor or 3d. My money will always pay the hand sculptor, however I am fully prepared and if there is a 3d sculptor that can produce me a figure of my choice for 2014 with direction to print I will fully eat my words.
Technically your really finally detailed figures are 3D. For the most part they are scanned from 1:10th scale sculptures done by some master sculptors. Point in fact any sculptor you are likely to buy is only a reproduction of a piece done in various materials to acheive the level of detail that most appeals to you.

Unfortunately the art of the military figure is now being lost under said technical expression where yet I have seen not an ounce of comparable creativity.
If you are insulting my skills as a sculptor, I find your remarks rude as well as uncalled for. I have never claimed to be a master of any medium. I am doing my best to learn and hopefull acheive that level and while I do appreciate constructive critism I do not like insults. I don't do it to others and expect that they shouldn't do it to me. That if anything is no way to win an argument and no way at all to have a conversation,,, which this is.

I question where I deliver the box of Historex parts to and ask for boridino to be replicated.
And I would like painted please, a vital piece that seems to be neglected.
Maybe so, but what does it have to do with 3D Modeling. You did notice that the title of this forum is "Digis - Digital Miniatures 3D Modeling" do you think you are addressing a thread on another forum?
Best wishes
 
As I said before in a previous post.....Let's just shake hands and call it a friendly conversation.Sorry I even jumped into this.
So my final reply is to say this.............To one and all...Have a real great holiday and may God be with us all......Wayne
 
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