Recasters

[Tecumsea]

I see some Chinese B*****D is ripping of Pegaso's Roaming Knight on Ebay, looks like a new name to the long list of Chinese Recasters, or one that has closed down and re-opened under a new name!
Gustavo in Argentina is up to his pranks again ripping off Alexandros and the Ltd Edition Pegaso Richard the Lion Heart

 

[Gaudin]

I see some Chinese B*****D is ripping of Pegaso's Roaming Knight on Ebay, looks like a new name to the long list of Chinese Recasters, or one that has closed down and re-opened under a new name!
Gustavo in Argentina is up to his pranks again ripping off Alexandros and the Ltd Edition Pegaso Richard the Lion Heart

Hi Keith,

"You captured goods, we will deal with in five days" - quality customer service

However - wouldnt it be better to discretly report it to Ebay for them to deal with it appropriately - rather than advertise availiability to a wide circle of people?

 

[Kevindunne]

I agree...its giving them free publicity.

 

[Mark S]

Thanks for the tip Keith!
All us unscrupulous Aussies will clean up there as we laugh maniacally all the way to the bank.

 

[Redcap]

Hi Keith,

"You captured goods, we will deal with in five days" - quality customer service

However - wouldnt it be better to discretly report it to Ebay for them to deal with it appropriately - rather than advertise availiability to a wide circle of people?

Just a minute here, Keith isn't "advertising availability" in any way here but simply commenting upon a new recaster. If EVERYONE in the hobby was as well informed as the bulk of the PF membership as to what original and recast products are being flogged all over the net, then there would be no need to mention this at all. That said however, there are frequent posts on this site with newcomers or people returning to the hobby after "X" number of years who are not "up to speed" asking questions as to who holds what molds or property / license rights etc. BEFORE they commit to buy. Many of these requests actually focus upon figures being advertised for sale on eBay and especially those being sold by Asian sellers (China, HK etc).
I also question why Keith or indeed any other individual has any obligation (moral or otherwise) to report pirating and thus pursue sellers via eBay on behalf of big companies or names in the hobby; especially when they themselves seem at best apathetic to the problem (this topic has been discussed to death previously so I will not elaborate).

I will also go on record on this site and say Keith is a man of the highest integrity in EVERYTHING the man does and is a passionate supporter of the hobby as anyone who has met him will confirm.To suggest otherwise is clearly not to know him!

Gary

 

[Tecumsea]

Thank you Gary, I was merely pointing out that the items were listed without mentioning the Ebay names of those listing-frequently there are requests over this or that figure on Planet from Modellers wanting information on the validity of Ebay listings, -my post was trying to pre-empt such an enquiry by pointing out that the items are listed and to beware-If anyone takes advantage of my post by deliberately ordering (Australian or otherwise) then they are knowingly harming the hobby and on that basis will order from Re-casters regardless of what is posted on here.
As to my reporting it to Ebay, unless I am a manufacturer they will not take any action, even then it is doubtful that they will take any action.

From the reaction to this post it seems I'm dammed if I do and dammed if I don't... But don't worry this will be my last post, I really can't be having the aggravation-I just wish there was a smiley with two fingers on it

Keith

 

[kagemusha]

I for one sincerely thank you for taking the time to warn us mate.

Cheers

Ron

 

[Helm]

Couldn't agree more Gary and Keith I think it's a good idea that people are aware what is currently being re cast especially when they are charging nearly the market price for an inferior product. Again as mentioned surely it's the manufacturers (usually the first to blame piracy for a price rise) who should do the reporting. I for one would have in all likelihood have bought recasts off E Bay after a 30 year break not knowing what the real prices were like and just put the poor quality down to the way things were these days

Steve

 

[housecarl]

Nice resin recast of Pegaso's USMC Vietnam, £30.
He's lost the box though.
More like bought it for a tenner, and added a bit of interest.
Carl.

 

[Gaudin]

As usual there will be a Paladin springing up to defend a damsel in distress ( thank you Redcap)

Gary,
No one questions Keith' s integrity - and it certainly wont be me, I hold fullest respect. What is it in my post that leads you to believe I am doubting his integrity?
Notice that I asked a question, didnt make a statement. What meaning you are making out of that - is your stuff.

And Keith - no one is blaming you for anything .

It took me less than 2 minutes to find the sellers based on information you supplied.
If you think that whole PF community holds high ethical value - you are mistaken, at least I doubt it. I bet you there will be more than a few people thinking - yep, will get me one of those thank you very much. I know that - because I had a thought like that, it comes before conscious mind reminds you where your values lie.
So I think - inadvertently and indirectly what this post also does (and I am sure its not your intent) - it informs not only people who are against piracy, but also people who dont mind and will buy it before listings are closed.
That is, again, a different thought I am bringing on a theme, not claiming its true or more correct.

Of course there is no obligation to report or do anything about it. But if enough people actually did it - may be something would happen?
If people take such valiant stance against recast in their words ( and note such vitriolic responce that it invoked in you, Keith)- why not do something small that may make a difference then?
What about all of us - instead moaning about how piracy is bad, how about actually flooding ebay with complaints from all over the word? There is more than hundred of us, isnt it?

Thats it - I propose:
how about we as a community, in numbers, take a decision to consciously report and persue every ebay recast we see and post in special thread so everyone involved reports it to ebay or to manufacturer and lets see what happens afer 3 month.

Only there is no obligation you see and no one will be bothered, cause its not anyones business...

PS Keith - I know where to get a smiley with two fingers, but unfortunately its a re-post.
I did not intend to offend you nor criticise you nor suggest anything about your integrity, its where Paladins took it.

 

[Figurenfreund66]

Why do not we call the known and recognized Recaster by name, so that everyone can instantly recognize as a pirate?
That has nothing to do with advertising, if you buy figures with these people, does this either way!
But we will inform those who did not want to buy and not a fake!

Hendryk

 

[artur_koszewski]

Hi Guys,

There were several posts here on PF describing how to recognize a figure that might be a recasted copy – missing box, different material used for producing it (resin instead of metal), etc…

First, I think it would be good idea to gather these information in one post and pin it up in some visible place at the PF forum, to let the new members and newbies in the hobby an easy access to this information.

Referring to what Hendryk wrote - I thing it should be considered, even thought it may looks like giving a free advertisement for the recasters – and I’m just explaining why.

Some time ago, but when I was already quite conscious about recasters presence and ways how to recognize their stuff, I spotted on eBay an original Knight Models figures offered by the Argentinian seller mentioned at the beginning of this thread by Keith. Figures were offered in their original boxes and casted in metal, so really seems to be an original ones. I bought them, but then noticed that this guy offers another Knight Models figures this time without boxes. I got figures bought from him and indeed they were packed in the original Knight Models boxes, but I’m almost sure that what was inside was not original castings but recasts – the metal has different colour that this used by Knight Models, there were some mould rubber torn off particles remains in recessed figure details, which I’ve never experienced with original Knight Model figures.

As we know mould can be used to produce limited number of castings, so when being a recaster it’s better to keep an original figure to be able to make new moulds if the previous ones become worn. The original box is probably not so worthy for them.

Unfortunately, I made the same mistake again not so long ago, buying other Knight Models figures from eBay seller from France. The same scenario – the guy offers Knight Models figures packed in original boxes and without boxes as well. I bought from him a batch of 10 figures and for all of them the resin parts were casted in the resin of exactly the same colour, which never happened for the KM figures that I bought from sure sources.

In both cases I cannot prove the sellers that the figures they sold me are copies, but I’m more than sure of that.

So, as you see sometimes it’s very, very hard to determine if the figure is original or not. In such a case Hendryk’s idea could be helpful however has some cons as well.

Cheers,
Artur

 

[Redcap]

As usual there will be a Paladin springing up to defend a damsel in distress ( thank you Redcap)

A typically "sniffy" reply from you Gaudin (or whatever your real name is) then feigning surprise as to how people have interpreted something you have said. I leave it for the casual PF reader (and Keith himself) to draw their own conclusions as to how your original "question" towards him was pitched and any possible inference therein.

Gary

 

[Gaudin]

A typically "sniffy" reply from you Gaudin (or whatever your real name is) then feigning surprise as to how people have interpreted something you have said.
I leave it for the casual PF reader (and Keith himself) to draw their own conclusions

There is enough people who actually understood what I said and saw the point I made. Again - its a forum.
It was a simple question - an Ok answer to that would be = No, Gaudin ( or whatever your real name is), it wouldnt be - because of xxx., we continue discussing.

And if you choose to go off on a tangent about an imaginary slant and shout in CAPITALS because it just makes your point more valid - carry on.

 

[Mirofsoft]

Make it simple
If you want your son and grand son to have a job in the future, just buy European, stop buying Asian copies and this is true for all products .
For some products it's already to late, I was already making the same comment in the 60ies... stop buying Asian copies...NO, peoples were attracted by cheap products, radio, TV, cameras... Today people have no choice anymore for those products, they are all done in ASIA .. and it continue today
Such big car manufacturer is closing his factory in Belgium, France, England.. have a look on the parking lot of those factories, 40% at least of the car parked there are from somewhere in Asia and, today, they are not even cheaper . For figures, buy as much as you can in a local shop, it's the same price less the sending costs, plus : you see what you buy, there is a large choice, you see and speak with other fans, you can have fidelity rebate, and perhaps the shop owner will buy someday the products that you, your son or grandson manufacture . When a factory goes in Asia for production , union are yelling ... it's to late; they never said to their members : buy what your neighbours are manufacturing, perhaps they will buy what you are manufacturing . And for a European manufacturer who is going in ASIA for more profit... no problem; tax his products by 100% from wich 30% wil pay unemployed, 30% to develop new industries and 30% to help 3rd world to grow their own food .
Nowadays Happy Xmass, Happy New Year

 

[theBaron]

However - wouldnt it be better to discretly report it to Ebay for them to deal with it appropriately - rather than advertise availiability to a wide circle of people?

I disagree. I think of these steps, when encountering a pirated copy for sale:

First, the best thing is not to buy, if you believe that pirating others' original works is wrong.

The next best thing to do is to contact the maker, if you know who made the original, and let him know. The maker probably holds the copyright and has the best legal standing to take action. eBay typically will not get involved, because they can't authenticate. Also, the maker or copyright holder may decide not to pursue it, based on the costs of prosecuting compared to any losses in sales.

And the next best thing after that is to post in forums like these. I wouldn't call it advertising to a wide circle of people, but rather, warning a wide circle of people in the hobby, who are concerned about piracy and can decide whether or to buy from the pirate or not.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Gaudin]

I disagree. I think of these steps, when encountering a pirated copy for sale:
Brad

Fair enough

G

 

[old grumbler]

Make it simple
If you want your son and grand son to have a job in the future, just buy European, stop buying Asian copies and this is true for all products .
For some products it's already to late, I was already making the same comment in the 60ies... stop buying Asian copies...NO, peoples were attracted by cheap products, radio, TV, cameras... Today people have no choice anymore for those products, they are all done in ASIA .. and it continue today
Such big car manufacturer is closing his factory in Belgium, France, England.. have a look on the parking lot of those factories, 40% at least of the car parked there are from somewhere in Asia and, today, they are not even cheaper . For figures, buy as much as you can in a local shop, it's the same price less the sending costs, plus : you see what you buy, there is a large choice, you see and speak with other fans, you can have fidelity rebate, and perhaps the shop owner will buy someday the products that you, your son or grandson manufacture . When a factory goes in Asia for production , union are yelling ... it's to late; they never said to their members : buy what your neighbours are manufacturing, perhaps they will buy what you are manufacturing . And for a European manufacturer who is going in ASIA for more profit... no problem; tax his products by 100% from wich 30% wil pay unemployed, 30% to develop new industries and 30% to help 3rd world to grow their own food .
Nowadays Happy Xmass, Happy New Year

The reason the west has become deindustrialized is because of the Treaty of Lima signed back in the 1970's, it's just that the prolls were never told! That's were YOUR job went Too late now.

 

[Paul-H]

Hi all

Just to play devils advocate and because its that time of year again

Question, would there be such a problem with re-casters if the original products where not so expensive, I do know they cost a lot in time to make the first master and the first set of moulds but once that is done each one only costs a few pence in resin, so if the prices reduced as more had been made would the re-casters have any incentive to ply their ill gotten trade.

Like I said I am not condoning re-casting but just wondering if the real reason behind it might be a bit closer to the home of the sellers of the original and not some Chap meeting a need for lower cost figures for the less well off to own and paint.

It must be very tempting to buy four figures for the price of one original.

Paul

 

[Mark S]

Paul, I think you may be missing an incredibily important part of the whole issue. The merits of any creative and artistic endeavour, the well honed and disiplined skills involved in creating it, and ofcourse it's intrinsic value as a piece of art.
I think we'd all like to be able to pick up a nice masterpiece by Picasso, Rembrandt, Titian or Congo the Chimpanzee just for the price of the paints, canvas, brushes and a few bananas.