Riding Position on Mounted Figures

[Dan Morton]

Thanks for posting the article Martin! Unfortunately the pages appear to have been saved with low resolution and a small size and I can't read them. I tried cleaning up and resizing/improving resolution in Photoshop and another software photo editor program but no go. Will send my e-mail address so you can try sending larger versions there.

Andrew - What do the scales shown on Horsing Around [http://www.horsingaround.com/] translate into? Classic, Traditional, Stablemate, Littlebit? Just curious. Beautiful horses! What do they mean by finish "raw" and "clean"?

If you want to do a mounted figure, Verlinden, MilArt and others make horses and figures in consistent scales which can be converted. If you haven't been a member long, several of us have done such conversions in the past. Interesting idea to do it in 200mm! That would be a lot of work!

All the best,
Dan

 

[jai]

Those photos are without any kit. I wouldn't want to lean forward like that with a lance. Even when you're taking a tank down a steep slope you try and reverse the gun!
Modern point to point, show jumping etc. has evolved from military riding. The Badminton horse trials for instance, were originally a military event. The obvious difference is that with military riding the horse is a platform to fight from. So in order to keep a deep seat we ride with long legs. Modern show jumpers ride with short legs in order to lift them selves up and forward. Military jumpers lean back.

Perhaps I did not explain ... and stop writing in this thread ... unfortunately I do not speak English and I rely on the network to translators who can make mistakes.

maybe I did not read it right all interventions.

I said that the way to stay in the saddle and hold the reins depends on the period

I posted photographic examples illustrating two different systems in dealing with an extreme descent .... all them, to explain my concept.

The initial application of the discussion was whether the kits are correct

The answer is: tell me the piece, or tell me the time and I explain to you how you are riding

The illustrations that you provided on how you hold the reins are correct, to the modern era, are wrong for the ancient era.

I used to when I was riding with the English style, they were different to when I was western races

Tell me again that time, the nation, the type of horse and then you can give an answer as correct as possible

We paint the piece that depicts a frame, a still image ... not necessarily everything must be by the book.

Imagine running a marathon .... halfway have a cramp, leg muscles is different, if the sculptor carves that moment would be criticized because the muscle is not nice machined ...

Same race, are standing hurt his foot and you lose your balance ... the sculptor stops that moment, everyone would write that a person in that position would fall.
In fact not, the brain, the spirit of survival, we would find a new balance and even if awkwardly end up stability and we can resume running.

Here, I think it's fair to find the correct positions of the hands and legs, of any shape, but remember that a knight, especially after hours of travel, not just to the maximum before a clash of mind, can stand saddle no textbook

Sorry for my English.

and sorry if perhaps aggressively couple

not being able to communicate properly, and especially to communicate through a keyboard may have misconceptions

fraternally

Giorgio

 

[Dan Morton]

"...the sculptor stops that moment, everyone would write that a person in that position would fall."

Exactly!

And they might fall or might not or some third thing may happen = dramatic tension. Action poses are tricky to get right for the sculptor! When they work the viewer catches the excitement of a millisecond when time stops.

A figurine of a rider falling from a horse normally would normally not be exciting for the viewer. A figurine of a rider desperately trying to stay in the saddle and fight his attacker because his life depends on it - that's fire for almost any viewer.

All the best,
Dan

 

[martin tabony]

Perhaps I did not explain ... and stop writing in this thread ... unfortunately I do not speak English and I rely on the network to translators who can make mistakes.

maybe I did not read it right all interventions.

I said that the way to stay in the saddle and hold the reins depends on the period

I posted photographic examples illustrating two different systems in dealing with an extreme descent .... all them, to explain my concept.

The initial application of the discussion was whether the kits are correct

The answer is: tell me the piece, or tell me the time and I explain to you how you are riding

The illustrations that you provided on how you hold the reins are correct, to the modern era, are wrong for the ancient era.

I used to when I was riding with the English style, they were different to when I was western races

Tell me again that time, the nation, the type of horse and then you can give an answer as correct as possible

We paint the piece that depicts a frame, a still image ... not necessarily everything must be by the book.

Imagine running a marathon .... halfway have a cramp, leg muscles is different, if the sculptor carves that moment would be criticized because the muscle is not nice machined ...

Same race, are standing hurt his foot and you lose your balance ... the sculptor stops that moment, everyone would write that a person in that position would fall.
In fact not, the brain, the spirit of survival, we would find a new balance and even if awkwardly end up stability and we can resume running.

Here, I think it's fair to find the correct positions of the hands and legs, of any shape, but remember that a knight, especially after hours of travel, not just to the maximum before a clash of mind, can stand saddle no textbook

Sorry for my English.

and sorry if perhaps aggressively couple

not being able to communicate properly, and especially to communicate through a keyboard may have misconceptions

fraternally

Giorgio

Yes I understand. It is also the case if you try to sculp a running human, a one point both feet are of the ground that is where "artistic licence" comes in
And again yes the riding position does change over time. Just look at the stirrup. Romans didn't use them, Samurai used a flat plate, western style pushes the heel "home" and modern european (last two centuries) keeps them at the ball of the foot.
Martin

 

[martin tabony]

"...the sculptor stops that moment, everyone would write that a person in that position would fall."

Exactly!

And they might fall or might not or some third thing may happen = dramatic tension. Action poses are tricky to get right for the sculptor! When they work the viewer catches the excitement of a millisecond when time stops.

A figurine of a rider falling from a horse normally would normally not be exciting for the viewer. A figurine of a rider desperately trying to stay in the saddle and fight his attacker because his life depends on it - that's fire for almost any viewer.

All the best,
Dan

I agree if it is a matter of catching that moment. If you'd ever seen what we used to call a "dirty stop on"! Riding under the horses neck is not a correct position but if it keeps you from having to buy the beers, it's all fair
To be honest though I was thinking more about the correct position from a more relaxed or parade type pose. For instance with your study of WW1 cavalry. I don't know if you've noticed that although the German cavalry use an "English" saddle, the stirrups are attach slightly further forward than the Brith U.P saddle. This gives a distinctly different leg position.
Martin

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

As far as I'm led to believe its heels down all the time and don't lean back when jumping or you will get left behind .
Have ridden a few horses but for the most they were pretty gentle except for Geronimo and Italian stallion which draged me thru an olive grove in Emilia Romanga and the one i fell off in Spain

 

[Dan Morton]

....I don't know if you've noticed that although the German cavalry use an "English" saddle, the stirrups are attach slightly further forward than the Brith U.P saddle. This gives a distinctly different leg position.

Martin

I had not noticed that. Just checked the illustrations and photos of German saddles and, yes, I can see it.

I have to admit...my interest in mounted cavalry is mostly portraying lunatic anachronism (like using lances against HMGs) and heart-stopping dramatic poses. Nothing against miniatures of cavalry or infantry on parade, but they don't excite or tell a visual story usually.

All the best,
Dan

 

[Red Five]

Traditional scale equates to 200mm and a lot of busts are from the waist up. I have a few of Horsing Around's resin horses and they are very good.

As for riding styles and positions the rider in all will be balanced. Same basic positioning rules apply whatever position the stirrups, if there, are.

Just been to a Lusitano dressage event. Had a look at some photographs. This just captured a moment but the outside leg is back, moving the heel up on a turn to guide the hind quarters . Just one of the little things I look for

 

[Mat Lambert]

Found it! 78, I didn't think it was that old.
One thing this rider is riding on the curb rein, which is used to control direction and speed. The bridoon keeps the horses head up.
I can email them to you if they aren't big enough

Hi Martin
Thanks for posting that Mil mod article - its excellent and you are truly brilliant for recalling and sharing it. However I s there another page as two of the scans are the same and the second one ends mid sentence?
Cheers
Mat

 

[martin tabony]

Hi Martin
Thanks for posting that Mil mod article - its excellent and you are truly brilliant for recalling and sharing it. However I s there another page as two of the scans are the same and the second one ends mid sentence?
Cheers
Mat

The reason for the double page is that I wrote on some small corrections. I didn't notice that there was part missing, Mil Mod had a bad habit of starting an article and then putting the final part page at the back with the adverts! It's unlikely I have it but at least we know which issue it's from. I think it was just describing the illustrations, although I think the legs are slightly short.
Martin

 

[Huw63]

The reason for the double page is that I wrote on some small corrections. I didn't notice that there was part missing, Mil Mod had a bad habit of starting an article and then putting the final part page at the back with the adverts! It's unlikely I have it but at least we know which issue it's from. I think it was just describing the illustrations, although I think the legs are slightly short.
Martin

Just catching up on things.

I have that issue. Will scan and post next few days.

Cheers

Huw

 

[Red Five]

Little video showing feet on the girth and body leaning forward for a rearing horse. This is the classical style which is near enough identical to cavalry in style and form. Figures generally have the feet back which means rider will be unbalanced and in a moment on the floor.

Taken today. Splendid show!

 

[Huw63]

Hi all,

I hadn't forgotten this thread - just not got around to it until today. I scanned the whole article today so here it is with the missing page. Half the missing page was about uniforms of the North Korean Army during the Korean war so I masked it out.

Cheers

Huw

p.s. scanned as .pdf files so they can be downloaded.