Stormtroopers being ripped off by Polish Recaster

[Ron Tamburrini]

As I read Stu´s "Price list" for a bust I thought I read the list for a 54mm figure of my own range. It is for us "little"firms hard to get the money back for the produced figures. It is more a hobby for me and I have my own figures. But to see them as recasts at ebay or somewhere else as Stu´s ones is hard. But we have here in Germany some great electronic markets with a slogan "Geiz ist geil" = "Miserliness is horny" (hope it is the correct translation). And I fear too much people are looking only at the price for a figure and they don´t know nothing about the costs for a "original" figure or (better) they ignore it, only to get a cheap figure.

Stu : If I can do something please led me know

Miserliness is horny Nice one Ulrich

 

[Blind Pew]

Well I can certainly say, genuine manufacturers have our support.
In terms of what we can practically do to stop all this, is to pack in buying from them. Depends on your faith in human nature, like Zane rightly says.
I know recently I flogged an OOP Kirin kit on ebay. All I could do was explicitly say I would not send to the Far East or Eastern Europe where we all know these people proliferate. (No offence to genuine people out there.) Not much on it's own maybe, but every little helps.

 

[Nap]

Hi Guys,

Had another response ...looks like he is buying from recasters as well ....some you might recognise!...a vicious circle

Nap

Here is his reply...

Hello.
These are figures like resin cast think so, and how to know the originals? I bought these on ebay figurines, china, taiwan, honk kong, USA.
Here are the pages where you can buy them


LINKS DELETED by Nap

 

[elgreco]

Stu - register straight away on the VeRo programme. Also, are you registered on Ebay as a business or a personal user as that makes a big difference? As a business user, you get a dedicated phone line and speedier results on the VeRo programme. When we had a couple of kits copied, Ebay de-listed the items almost immediately.
It's hard to stop these guys and until they find buyers who are willing to pay for cheap copies, then recasters/counterfeiters are always going to proliferate. Ebay is full of them - not just for models but everything under the sun that can be copied and sold....And thinking that these are only based in the Far East and/or Eastern Europe is a myth too... they are everywhere including here in the UK!
Cheers,
Celine

 

[Blue Thunder]

It is certainly not a good painter who will buy a recast copy ! Why waste hours of painting a bad copy of the original ? I don't understand it. Moreover, even if the recast was a perfect copy of the original, you must be a ¥*£€¥'l£¥€ to buy a recast.
Alex

I would like to pick this statement from Alex, as it is helpful to what I am about to say.

I stated in the past two things:

1) Pirates only exist where opportunities exists.

2) If you open the gate to one, one hundred will follow. And above, in all those links from Kevin, we see today my past statements happening.


Every one here has a job, mine is management. A key tool in my job is to see one inch of the present to output one mile from the future. That's why it is somehow easy to me to see ahead ... because that's what I do for living, so I cross my hobby with my job in these situations.


So what will be the future? My friends, the future is dark.


Allow me to say why:

First we are moving to a world of anonymous miniatures. A nearby future where a minority (us) will search "YM1851 German WAFFEN SS Panzer Officer WWII" and a majority will search "German bust WWII". The first will get a tiny output of novel miniatures priced at $60 and the second will get a large array of miniatures to choose priced at $20.00

It is the same thing as searching: "Tablet 10.1'' - The customer doesn't care about the brand - he cares about subject appeal and price. There was an Hungarian guy in the summer, now I am seeing guys from all the world using the same distribution platform. and be prepared for more: More people, more flooding and the next step - where is the original - in the middle of so much flooding, the original will rise to the eyes of many like this: "Phew why the hack this thing costs here $60 and everywhere else the same deal costs $15"


Second - These guys are having an advantage over brands - it is inventory! And an advantage over re-sellers - it is price. They are selling all the brands ... as knock offs! So, they have a greater array of products and will reach more customers. The essence of Re-sellers in all businesses is to get all brands near the customers. This is exactly what these people are doing: Picking the best of all brands, and putting them at a third of the price near the client: eBay is an extremely powerful tool in most businesses today. It is a modern mall - if I had a model shop I would drop investment in an eSite and would focus on eBay to create a solid customer database. As strange as it may seems, time will put these guys ahead of legitimate re-sellers.


But why do they exist? Pretty easy. Allow me to quote Amazon founder, Jeff Bezos: "Inside your margin, is my opportunity." So here it goes why they exist:

Normal chain supply management of figurine industry: Research Cost+Sculptor Cost+Casting Cost+Marketing Costs+Fixed and Operating Costs+Brand Profit+Transport to Re seller Cost+Inventory Costs+Other Fixed and Operating Costs of Re-seller+Re seller Profit+VAT = Price to the Customer without shipping = $60.00+S&H

(and I suppressed capital investment, to make things look simpler)

Knock off cost: Miniature Purchase+Casting Cost+Illicit Profit + (VAT? I wonder if they even pay VAT...) = Price to the Customer without Shipping = $20.00+S&H


And then comes third: Where there is less financial risks and less capital expenditure? In the second - so the second business is more efficient than the first. And also more profitable. When the distribution channel is the same - eBay - it is easy to see who triumphs and who will falls down. This is why the future is dark. And dark to both producers and re sellers.

There are two solutions. But they are both painful, either to re sellers and producers. I told them before and just took flames back. But believe me once and for all: If this eBay door is not locked, counterfeiters will be ahead of legitimate people, because the average eBay customer and the average enthusiast does not distinguish "Andrea S9B26: After the Battle, c1250" from "medieval soldier XIII century resin bust". In other fields, this same event even has a brand problem: The customer thinks "why these pimps want $60 for this face and torso where just here bellow another guy is selling the same for 20$". Brands and re sellers are affected by this perception: Not even 1% of people can assemble a cost structure or a risk structure - all they care is product and price: We are all the same in just everywhere - juices, clothing, shoes ... name it.

To end, there is also an opportunity to legitimate people - new prices always mean new customers: So these counterfeiters are bringing new clients to the hobby: Now these clients belong to them, in the future they can belong to you Not everything needs to be dark.

No flames to the typing guy. Think about it first!

 

[stu]

Hi

Nuno is right !!!!

I have now found 2 others shitting on me. I know understand how to find them just like their customers !!!

VeRo goes off tonight !!! I need a FAX for F!!k's sake !!!!

I hope it works,,,, I am by nature dogged so will be at them constantly !!!!

The problem is simply COST,,,,,nothing else matters to the purchaser but essentially their customers just don't give a ***k about me or you ....I also now believe most of them will be very aware of PF and use Ebay recasters to purchase what they saw here first. They are probably laughing at us all !!! we the minority not the majority that care,,,,thats what I find scarey !!!

I look at what all these guys are selling and my stuff is just a tiny proportion,,,nuts planet ,,life ,,,young,,, pegaso ,,,andrea et al are all getting well and truly bent over by these C8%ts .

Think how much money they are loosing !!!! it must be substantial.

Hey Ho onward and upward

Stuart

Stu

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Not only is the recaster denying the producers the profit. In many cases the recaster also gives the producers bad PR selling an inferior products which customer rather associate to the producer than the recaster.

And who will launch new figures in the future when they cant at least go even? I cant see any producers driving sportscar and having swimming pools?

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[brian]

What concerns me ,is that i didn't know about how prevalent, or even where to find them, until i saw their sites on this forum.Is that not shooting oneself in the foot?
Brian

 

[elgreco]

I would suggest that the links to those URLs are deleted from the posts... they are very tempting for those modellers who love the hobby but find it too expensive.

 

[Nap]

I would suggest that the links to those URLs are deleted from the posts... they are very tempting for those modellers who love the hobby but find it too expensive.

I have taken out the links in the reply I got

Nap

 

[stu]

As stated before I really wish Keith had just sent me the link it would have been better ,,,I think he likes giving them air time as its not the first time !!!

Hey Ho we live and learn as they say.

Certainly changed my week,,,,,,well pissed off !!! and that's putting it mildly

Stu

 

[Wayneb]

I confess....as a beginner a few yrs.ago I bought a couple of Youngs rip offs and all I can say to those tempted."Don't go there".........the resin is cheap and brittle....the casting even worse,such as the parts not fitting as if removed from the mould too soon....pieces to thin or missing .Both pieces partialy prepped still sit in the corner of my bench not worth the time to continue.So be forwarned .....I won't say which pieces they are but if you have them you know......(There..I've confessed..May the Gods of PF forgive me.......Regards to all......Wayne

 

[Nap]

Stu,

You are perhaps right , the whole issue has got members hackles up to put it mildly including mine to say the least .

I see Keith has also listed stuff for sale hopefully they are originals ?

Wayne ,

Good on you not one of the Gods but I forgive you

Nap

 

[Ron Tamburrini]

Wayne ; may all your quality brushes have bent points

 

[Babelfish]

I would suggest that the links to those URLs are deleted from the posts... they are very tempting for those modellers who love the hobby but find it too expensive.

Link now deleted from Keith's original post.

"And lead us not into temptation ....."

- Steve

 

[kagemusha]

'Piracy'....in all it's many guises....and in all the different arenas of life...is there to feed the needs of those who cannot afford the 'originals.
Whilst there is no doubting the value for money most of todays manufacturers offer.....there are many modellers out there who are not as lucky, as we can count ourselves, in being able to afford the pleasure of originals.
It is also worth considering just how much time, energy and money, the music/film industries have spent, in the pursuit of eliminating the 'Pirates', all to no avail.
Take the car parts industry. There have always been '3rd party/pattern' parts available. A huge proportion of these being made in China, because the costs are much lower there.
So low in fact, that many of the 'original' parts are also made there but, the manufacturers still charge a premium price for their own branded product.
My point being this. Even with hundreds of millions of pounds being spent annually, piracy continues to flourish.

Whilst it is unfair on the small companies, like Stormtroopers, in the eyes of the re-caster/pirate there is no real punishment to deter them from stealing others property, even if it is copyrighted/patented.
Therefore, until governments impose suitable punishments for these crimes, the market will continue to grow.

We on PF, as a community, have the power to support the companies suffering such theft, by refusing to purchase these tarnished products.
By not 'advertising' the availability of these products on here we are also doing a very small amount to minimise the pirates market.
As a courtesy, informing Stu of the existence of the such infringements was the right thing to do, just done in the wrong way......possibly intentionally!

I for one will continue to support the likes of Stormtroopers, CGS and others, by refusing to buy anything other than 'originals'.

Ron

 

[Colin_Fraser]

How about you can't enter a figure in a show without presenting your original receipt or invoice? I know that won't appeal to the anti-regulation right but it would likely work.

Colin

 

[ellie]

I don't think Keith put the link on intentionally it was just to highlight what was going on. my be contacting stu direct may in hindsight have been the best way but knowing Keith it would not have been for any other reason than concern that this was going on, and to try and get some ideas on how to stop this trade. it will be a hard job but it has to start some where.

Ian

 

[Babelfish]

How about you can't enter a figure in a show without presenting your original receipt or invoice? I know that won't appeal to the anti-regulation right but it would likely work. Colin

The lack of appeal is more a question of it not being an exact science or even practical. In the hobby as a whole there are probably way more people who don't enter comps than do. And how many people keep receipts anyway? And what about legit figures swapped at club meets for example? Do I have to produce a notarised letter from the original owner confirming its provenance before I can enter it in a competition?

- Steve

 

[Blind Pew]

One thing we certainly can do on here, is to highlight the undoubted inferior quality of these things.

And hope people care...