Uniform question for Napoleonic era French Infantry Officer

[Jon Fitzgerald]

Hi everyone,

Not sure if this is the right place for this question (can't seem to find a sub forum for uniforms or reference).

I am currently working on Lattore's 54mm French Line Infantry Officer. On the box they list him as 1806, and he is painted in the 1806 white uniform of the 3rd regiment.

I have a few questions about this uniform, as I have found conflicting information in different sources. I found an article online from a very old issue of Military Modelling that says the Lapels and Colar should be dark green but the buttons should be yellow metal. This article lists it's references as Carnet de la Sabretache; La Giberne; Le Passepoil; H. Malibran, and Guide a I'Usage des Artistes et des Costumiers, Paris, 1904; Assorted manuscripts in la Musée de l'Armée.

However in the Osprey Men at Arms book that I have on line infantry, they say that for the 3rd regiment the buttons should be white. Latorre also painted their model with white buttons.

I know very little about uniform from this period, so I'd be very grateful for people to give me some feedback and their ideas on this. I am assuming that white buttons are infact correct, seeing as how this Military Modelling article is from the 1970's!

Also does anyone have any thoughts on the turnbacks? The MM article says that turnbacks of the coat should be white, but were often the distinctive colour of the regiment (in the 3rd regiments case dark green).

Any thoughts would be most welcome!

 

[MarquisMini]

I have few books of Osprey regarding these uniforms and to my understanding the turnbacks were of the facing color for some of the units.
I don't know about the buttons , i can tell you that the Reglement des uniformes 1779 state that the regiments with "white" buttons wore vertical pockets and those regiments with " gold" buttons wore horizontal pockets.
I don't know if this apply to the 1806 uniform but if i find any info i will pass it on to you.
Cheers

 

[Jon Fitzgerald]

Thanks Daniel, much obliged!

On a seperate note, aside from the colours does anyone know if the uniforms cut and style were the same? I wondered if the model can be painted in the more common blue coat as an alternative, but wasn't sure if there is some specific feature of this sculpt that means it should stay in the 1806 white style.

 

[Mirofsoft]

Here Uniform of the French Line Infantry
http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/France/Infantry/Line/c_Reeselineinfantry.html
Fusilier , Grenadier or Voltigeur
Assume that peoples at Latorre have made research and just accept the painting information they give or you will be searching for months , never sure of what you get . Just paint it as on the Box
you can also have a good look here : http://www.hat.com/ColorsU.html or a link to Rousselot Plates http://fotki.lv/ru/Remi/627119/ or enter in Google Image : "planche rousselot"

 

[MarquisMini]

Thanks Daniel, much obliged!

On a seperate note, aside from the colours does anyone know if the uniforms cut and style were the same? I wondered if the model can be painted in the more common blue coat as an alternative, but wasn't sure if there is some specific feature of this sculpt that means it should stay in the 1806 white style.

It is the same cut and style, the only reason the've change the color to white is because it was more economic than the blue hue , but it was discarded after seeing those whites uniforms all stained with blood and dirt.
I personally like the white uniform, i am painting the 1779 style uniform for the battle of Yorktown and love it!

 

[Jon Fitzgerald]

Thanks for the links! Those are great! I guess I'll go with white turnbacks then, as Rousselot has them as white on his plates also... might make them green though to break things up a little. Will have to have a think on that.

 

[Jon Fitzgerald]

Thanks Daniel, I thought that might be the case. Actually I am considering the white for exactly that reason, I plan to weather it, maybe with some grime and stains.

 

[MarquisMini]

Thanks Daniel, I thought that might be the case. Actually I am considering the white for exactly that reason, I plan to weather it, maybe with some grime and stains.

i am sure it will look great , keep us post it with progress pics!

 

[polyphemus]

There was a book on the French Line Infantry in the old Almark series, long out of print but sometimes crops up on ebay. The known variations on the white uniforms were detailed in the book. Many regiments were never issued with the white uniforms although the proposed uniform regulations were published. From memory the regiments were grouped by proposed facing colours and within each group there were variations for each regiment. For example some regiments were to have turnbacks in the facing colour while others were to have turnbacks in white piped in the facing colour.

I know that doesn't help although someone may have a copy of the book.

Geoff

 

[Jon Fitzgerald]

Thanks Geoff, I appreciate any feedback. It's always welcome!

 

[billyturnip]

This might help Geoff,
http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/Despeche/Issue1/c_3rdLineWhiteUniforms.html

Roger.

 

[Jon Fitzgerald]

Thats great! Thanks Roger, a very interesting read!

 

[billyturnip]

You're welcome Geoff.

 

[PhilinYuma]

The Almark book, French Napoleonic Line Infantry, by Emir Bukhari (I think that you can still pick up a used copy on Amazon), gives imperial green as the colour for the facings of the first eight line regiments with copper buttons for the first four regiments of each group of eight and white for the last four, making the 3rd regiment's copper with horizontal pockets. Bukhari also repeats the story about the French being appalled by the blood stains on white uniforms, but I find it hard to believe in the absence of any documentary evidence, since Austria was using white or partially white uniforms from the 1790s through 1814, and the British were wearing white breeches into the 19th century. It sounds oddly reminiscent of the old wives' tale that the British wore read to hide blood stains! It seems more likely to me that the white coats were simply a stopgap while the French were expeincing a shortage of aniline dye and discontinued when it became available again.
Since many soldiers were apparently never issued the white uniform, it would be quite appropriate to dress yourr infantryman in a blue jacket and white pants. If you do, you might want to look at a large picture by talented Christa (daughter of talented Richard) Hook at the battle of Telnitz that took place around 0900 on the day of Austerlitz, December 2nd, 1805. I don't have the original Osprey (Campaign Series?) book in which it appeared, but it was recently reissued in the excellent Armies of the Napoleonic Wars, pp. 62-63.
O.K. , enough rambling. I hope that this helps.

 

[ChaosCossack]

According to Rousselot plates:

The coat is white, as are pocket flaps (horizontal with three points and buttons), turnbacks and shoulderstraps, all with green piping on the edges. The collar, cuffs, cuffstraps and lapels are green with white piping on the edges. The plates show the buttons to be white metal.
Regs decree the third to have white cuffs and straps with green piping and yellow buttons.... but contemporary plates and documents refer to this regiment as a 'crossover' regiment who didn't adhere to the new clothing regs of 1806-07.
Therefore, the Rousselot plate depicts the uniform as worn until the regs could be set in stone. By that time, the white coats were replaced by the new blue coats.
I have the plate and description in the Rousselot book but if I can find them online I'll post them here.

Colin

 

[ChaosCossack]

From this book:

 

[ChaosCossack]

This is the coat as perscribed by the regs, but according to contemporary documents and illustrations is not the one worn in practice. The one described by Rousselot is supposed to be the one that ended up being distributed to the 3rd regiment in the field.

 

[MarquisMini]

This is the coat as perscribed by the regs, but according to contemporary documents and illustrations is not the one worn in practice. The one described by Rousselot is supposed to be the one that ended up being distributed to the 3rd regiment in the field.View attachment 98773

As with any pre-napoleonic and napoleonic uniform , base onillustrations and archives from many different sources is always hard to really know the extent of how the regulation have been follow ,times of war and transition could lead to different variations even within the same regiment.

 

[Jon Fitzgerald]

Thanks for this Colin, much appreciated!