Use of commercial parts

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1969

A Fixture
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
5,248
Location
Leicester U.K
Thought i would throw this out to clarify something.What is the ruling on using commercial parts on a sculpt that you intend to use commercially.I am thinking of weapons and possibly hands and feet.At the moment i am not sculpting commercially and i always sculpt my figures 100% myself.

Steve
 
If it is going to be commercial, it must be 100% your work. Unless you are sculpting for a manufacturer who is providing parts from their line.
 
Using Commercial parts for a figure that is produced and marketed as being your own is a big NO NO. If on the other hand you have the permission of the company or sculptor of the original part(s) then it's not a problem.~Gary
 
Janne, Hmmmmm. Interesting question. I guess if the figure were totally clothed you would not see the armature. Personally I'd refrain from using one and just do everything myself.~Gary
 
Im not sure about this but I would like to believe thats its ok to use a mannequen thats available.

Or what would you guys say?

Cheers

I would say yes so long as you do not use any heads that may come with one. I like the Friulmodel academy figure 54 mm the head that comes on top of the figure is just a basic small skull that you can use as a guide to sculpt over it. It also has three bald heads with different expressions. If they were used I can see that being a problem . It is a very open base and takes work to get it to a finished stage. I used one to do this guy. If I was the maker of an item like this I would like people to give a credit for its use. But it seems to me that this is the kind of thing they are made for.
http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copyofp3110007sh9.jpg
http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0001lg7.jpg
Best
Jeff
 
Since i happen to know many sculptors that cooperate with companies, i have to say that almost everyone has its own way .

Some guys use manequins that they have created one time and reproduced for future uses on theirr own. Some others create a new armature and anatomical every single time . Some guys use wrists or legs or shoes that suit them and modify them or even leave them untouched.

All these parts are used for masters of great figures that we buy and paint.

Also many creators of figures that are made one of a kind - for collectors - use commercial available parts as even heads from other figures.

Thats the way it works. I would prefert o know that everything is created from the start , but as it was said , when the manequin - or basic armature - is covered with putty to shape the anatomy, and then start dressing up, few things will help you to understand if it was all from the start , or it was consisted also with some previously available parts.

In general companies dont like this and prefer everything to be freshly made, and i think that this is also good for the sculptors experience . But some times time is pressing and easy solutions are helping out !!!!
 
Sculptor or Hobbyist?

A person who does not have the confidence (or ability) to do his own sculpting of heads, hands, or whatever else for that matter, is probably over-reaching to try to have his or her work produced commercially.

Plagiarism is a crime. The problem, in this industry, is that the business is too small to make recoveries or litigations a viable proposition. But let's face it, if a thing is generally acknowledged as being unethical enough to be a criminal act, then it simply is not a kosher thing to do.

If a person, as a hobbyist, (making models for his own pleasure) decides to "borrow" parts from existing figures, that is perfectly okay. If the model is not reproduced and sold to others it does not infringe on the rights of anybody. That modeler is not making a profit off of the efforts of somebody else's hard work, or trying to pass off other's work as their own.

If you were writing a book for a publisher and it was discovered later on that you had stolen a chapter from the work of another author, you should expect to be sued. You should also expect that your "professional" reputation will be ruined. Just because that doesn't happen in this business does not mean that it is okay. I do this for a living. I don't have another job. How would you feel if I walked into your office and stole some of your work and sold it off to my employer for a profit? Does such a question really need to be asked?

Some companies re-use parts from their existing line to make new figures. This is solely a propreitary thing and differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. But if a person is unable to undertake a complete model from scratch, then perhaps they should accept the idea that they are hobbyists and leave this kind of thing to professionals.

Mike Good
 
Something I've been meaning to mention since this thread started. Without sounding accusatory, I bought some resin figures a few years ago and inside I found plastic sprues that were obviously DML weapons. These had to have been gotten from DML as they were plastic and attached to the sprue. There was also a resin copy of an M1 that had a hand sculpted on. What kind of arrangement must this company have worked out with DML in order to obtain these items?
 
What kind of arrangement must this company have worked out with DML in order to obtain these items?

Maybe NO deal? It is an interesting question John. What more of a profit would DML stand to make by allowing another company to sell weapons with their figure kits? That sure is strange.~Gary
 
What kind of arrangement must this company have worked out with DML in order to obtain these items?

I know in the "tankworld" Dragon sometimes work together with resin manufactors (ADV/Azimuth springs to mind) that they deliver the plastic parts needed for the resin conversion set. I haven't heard of this for figures though.

Greetz,

Gino
 
Maybe NO deal? It is an interesting question John. What more of a profit would DML stand to make by allowing another company to sell weapons with their figure kits? That sure is strange.~Gary

At the time I wondered if DML sold the individual pieces to Nemod (no reason to be cryptic) to package in their kits. I'm sure that this would be of negligible cost to DML (and Nemrod) other than the labor to seperate the individual weapons/pieces from the main sprue. This is the only manufacturer I have ever seen do this. Gino mentions ADV/Azimut though. I believe they have/had some relation to Nemrod in the past.

Can Joe Modeler buy individual pieces/sprues from manufacturers?
 
A person who does not have the confidence (or ability) to do his own sculpting of heads, hands, or whatever else for that matter, is probably over-reaching to try to have his or her work produced commercially.

Plagiarism is a crime. The problem, in this industry, is that the business is too small to make recoveries or litigations a viable proposition. But let's face it, if a thing is generally acknowledged as being unethical enough to be a criminal act, then it simply is not a kosher thing to do.

If a person, as a hobbyist, (making models for his own pleasure) decides to "borrow" parts from existing figures, that is perfectly okay. If the model is not reproduced and sold to others it does not infringe on the rights of anybody. That modeler is not making a profit off of the efforts of somebody else's hard work, or trying to pass off other's work as their own.

If you were writing a book for a publisher and it was discovered later on that you had stolen a chapter from the work of another author, you should expect to be sued. You should also expect that your "professional" reputation will be ruined. Just because that doesn't happen in this business does not mean that it is okay. I do this for a living. I don't have another job. How would you feel if I walked into your office and stole some of your work and sold it off to my employer for a profit? Does such a question really need to be asked?

Some companies re-use parts from their existing line to make new figures. This is solely a propreitary thing and differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. But if a person is unable to undertake a complete model from scratch, then perhaps they should accept the idea that they are hobbyists and leave this kind of thing to professionals.

Mike Good

Mike ,

I see your point. Maybe my acceptance of mannequins comes from my time the toy field. They were used to keep the toys a constant scale. Even sculptors of very high regard used them. It was just a tool to keep things in a constant scale. That is one place I can really see a use for them. Some figure lines have a real problem with constant scale. I can see company mannequins as way to help solve this problem. Even if a sculptor did not use them to create his or her figures, but used it as a reference to keep a constant scale. They would be a useful tool. Should a sculptor be able to create from scratch everything he needs yes. Just as I as a professional model maker should be able to create everything I need for a project. I have done projects that use commercial parts. Usually these take the form of Plastruct or Evergreen parts.
All of that being said, I understand your point, and support it.


Best
Jeff
 
Armature bits are okay

A mannequin is a basic "tool" used to create a finished piece. When I was at Kirin, we distributed those to numerous sculptors freely. It is just a quicker way to insure scale accuracy and not have to re-invent the wheel every time you sculpt a figure. I still use them all of the time.

But we were talking about completed hands and heads and visible things on finished figures. That is different because they show on the finished model. They have the imprint of their creator on them. This biz does not pay all that well. I admit that I will reuse things whenever I can to optimize my time. It is just good business sense and basic survival for me.

Basic armature pieces are a different category, to my mind. But any sculptor worth his salt will originate those parts himself. I almost never use armature parts created by others. The times I have, I found that I was not 100% happy with them. So, it is just a matter of the integrity of the finished piece that i use my own armature pieces.

Mike
 
OK Mike ,

We seem to be on the same page on this one. Hopefully I made it clear in my first post that heads and hands and such from other makers is not an OK thing to include. I also understand what you mean about some mannequins being more work then a help. I have been twisting my own wire mannequins lately and I am really starting to like what I am able to do with them.

Best
Jeff
 
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