Where did I go wrong?

[Tarok]

Okay, here's what happened... and sorry about the poor pics...

I painted the face with Humbrol's, and wasn't happy with the results... they looked okay'ish, but not what I really wanted... there wasn't enough contrast for a 54mm figure...

Then I came across this technique during last week. Seemed simple enough, and between the missus and I we have all the oils... so I figured what the heck... let's give this oil painting thing a bash... so on Saturday morning I did... and these were the results...

These pics were taken about 24 hrs after the face was painted... so I really don't think it's gonna dry lighter - like I'd hoped...

What advice do the veteran oil guys out there have for me? I'd like to keep trying this oil over enamel base coat method, it seems really nice, and relatively clean as well.



Thanks fellas

Rudi

 

[Guy]

Hello Rudi,

I use oils over Humbrol base. I would leave it as it is until you get the areas around the flesh painted or base coated and this will change how the flesh looks.

 

[Kisifer]

That's quite complicated technique for someone that uses oils for first time. There similar techniques much easier and simpler than the one described in this website. I use a mix of Burnt Sienna, Yellow Ochre and Titanium white. By mixing those color i make me medium tone. I apply this tone over humbrols flesh. I try and wipe as much of that mix so i can leave a thin layer without any brushstrokes etc. Then I start (by adding more Sienna) adding the shadows. I like starting from the darkest. I apply the shadows and blend them with the thin layer of my medium mix. Then i go and add my lights (by adding more white on my main mix) and do the same blending including this time the shadows too. I let the face dry completely and then if neccessary i add extreme shadows and lights. I have to say that i get quite satisfactory results and there is still room for plenty of imporevement.
What i can see from your photos, i think you've left too much oil on the face. I can't really tell though.
I hope that helped. If you need anything else you can always message me.

Xenofon

 

[arthur]

Rudi,
I wonder if your undercoating did not fill all the details in the face (look at chainmail) and that together with thick Humbrols and oils gave you the result that we see on the pics.
BTW I use "flesh" humbrol as a base as well, before going over it with oils.
Cheers,
A.

 

[Doughboy417]

I dont think it will look that bad when you do some touch ups around the face and add the eyes. I wish I could paint my faces that well... mine look like they are melting !

Cheers!

 

[KeithP]

Here is what strikes me on your photo's.

It may be the photo's, but the surfaces appear rough right from the start. The primed areas appear rough. This may be an effect of too much paint. Use several thin coats of primer and several thin coats of acrylic or enamel base. Several thin coats are always better than one thcker one!

Now , I am of the "paint as thin as possible oil school" :lol: . At least for me, I use the min amount of flesh mix to cover the face. AND, then use a CLEAN and DRY SOFT brush to remove the excess!

What you have shown is a really good place to proceed. You can add additional highlights and shadows when dry! Also, consider adding more "blush" to the cheeks, tip of nose and earlobes.

Good luck and show us more!

Keith

 

[Tarok]

Thanks all for the contructive feedback... in order of response:

Guy Thanks, I was thinking of doing that. The oils over enamel technique/method seems easy, but I think time will tell if I stick to it - and I'm sure I will

Xenofon Funny, I thought it was one of the easier techniques I had read, but that's probably because it was SBS and mentioned drying times etc... I am open to other methods if you can refer me to them. I agree with you, perhaps I did leave too much Sienna on the face, and then while blending the subsequent coats, I didn't lift my brush while zig-zagging (should one zig-zag or stipple when blending oils?) so I was just moving the paint around, and not thinning the paint on the surface.

Arthur I agree. I used an automotive primer from a rattlecan (an aerolak?) for the first (and last) time - normally I use a light enamel grey or white. I had to remove a fair amount of paint that had lumped up details - and from what I see in the pictures I should have removed more...

Doughboy417 Thanks mate. I'm sure your's are tonnes better than mine :lol:

KeithP I agree. Re. the primer see my reply to Arthur. Re. the brush, I think another mistake (life lesson?) is that I used a 5/0 brush to blend, instead of a 0 or 00 round bristle brush. I feel that this together with the primer, and blending technique was my downfall.



Okay, next question... the primer is clearly too thick and should be removed. What can I use? As I mentioned I used an "Aerolak" - dunno if this is a generic term. I understand that lacquer thinner will take the oils off. Is this correct?


Thanks again for all the great feedback

Rudi

 

[Kisifer]

Hello there Rudi,

What i do when i blend is to stipple where the two different mixes meet. Zig zag can lead (from my own experience) a shadow for example to go into a highlight area or vice versa. If you want i can e-mail you an extensive description of my technique. What i use for stripping a painted area is general use thinner. It doesn't have any particular name and i buy from my local paint shop.

Xenofon

 

[Tarok]

That would be fantastic if you could mail me your technique.

Many thanks

Rudi

 

[KeithP]

You can use the lacquer thinner but it's pretty nasty stuff.

I use spray on oven cleaner... Easy Off. Spray the figure and place in a plastic bag. Let sit for a few hours. Then wash off. If the paint is really thick, you may need to scrub with an old toothbrush or reapply the oven cleaner.

Keith

 

[Tarok]

Thanks Keith... the lacquer thinner is nasty in what way? Damaging to the paint? How will the thinners affect the miliput I used to fill the gaps?

EasyOff isn't available in South Africa... I take it I can't just use any oven cleaner? What about paint stripper? Is that a no-no?

Rudi

 

[KeithP]

Maybe I misunderstood your strip question. I assumed that you wanted to strip the whole figure? If that is the case then go ahead and use the oven cleaner.

If you wanted to "spot" remove then you can use turpentine/paint stripper. It is less "hot" than lacquer thinner so perhaps would be easier to control.

I have not had much experience "spot" removing paint on my figures.

By nasty, I mean that the stuff contains known hazardous and flammable material. Frankly, I cannot stand the smell of turpentine or lacquer.
Come to think of it, the oven cleaner is probably pretty unhealthy too. But, placing in a bag helps and I can do it outdoors! :lol:

Oven cleaner has not damaged milliput on my figures. I would certinly re-examine seams or places that you had the milliput though just to be safe

Keith

 

[Doughboy417]

When I use paint thinner to strip a figure it leaves the figure coarse and bumpy in texture. Why is that? Sorry to butt in with the question...he...he...

 

[Tarok]

Good question Bobby... and an interesting one... I'm curious to hear the answer...

Keith... no, you are correct... I do want to strip the whole figure and start again... do you know of anyone else using other (i.e. other than EasyOff) oven cleaners with success? By paint stripper I meant something like this: Polycell Paint Stripper... But I assume it may be a bit too heavy duty for a white metal figure...
What about brake fluid? I have used brake fluid with success to remove paint on plastic car bodies. Can I use it on a white metal figure? Will it damage the metal and the detail? Will it damage the milliput?

Thanks again

Rudi

 

[Tarok]

Seeing as how this is the figure I'm doing...

What is the best was to achieve these skin tones? What do I need to add to the mix that we have discussed above?

Rudi

 

[Cicero]

Hi Rudi,

Stepping in quit late in this discussion here are my 2 cents concerning stripping paint from figures.

Try brushing soap, the kind our lovely wifes use to brush and clean stone or tile floors. In Dutch the stuff is called "groene zeep" (English translation: "green soap"). Leave the figure in a jar filled with this soap for a little week and normally you can brush all paint away with an old tooth brush. This soap won't affect the metal and the milliput. To my knowledge it is neither a heavy burden on the enviroment and after you stripped your figure with it your home will smell as fresh as ever :lol: .

Concerning your other question: for the so called "five o' clock shadow" you could mix a (very) little "sepia" with the base colour. It is an oil colour from the Rembrand range, and as a matter of fact it is a very versatile colour, with lots of uses. As it is kind of transparent I use it as a base oil colour over the acrylics to paint black clothing, which give the black already a worn look. You can use it also with good effect for washes and toning down almost every other colour.
One of England's best painters (IMHO at least), Hardy Tempest, uses sepia also a lot in his oil mixes. Try this link and you know what I mean.

http://www.hardytempest.moonfruit.com/

For the lips you can mix in a little crimson oil paint (Winsor & Newton has it in its range)

Ciao

Johan

 

[KeithP]

Rudi-

If that paint stripper is anything like the Jasco stuff I used on some doors on my house a few years back, it is very volatile. I had to wear gloves and face mask and shield. I am not sure you need this kind of stuff on your figure

I have not used brake fluid so I cannot answer that question.
One add'l thing I will mention is that if you are concerned about a negative effect on the milliput, try putting some of your chosen stripper on a scrap piece with milliput before you apply to your figure.

I have never had problems with metal or resins figures and mineral spirits. I have accidentally "melted" some of the DML/Tamiya plastic (polystyrene?) with acetone.
That resulted in rought and granulated surface :lol:

As far as flesh oil mixes go, you can look thru my work bench here for what I have used. They are pretty simple. Also, you can look thru the other work benches here of other oil painters like Craig Whitacker, Lou Masses, Patrick Kirk and Roc to name but a few very talented oil painters. Almost all the threads have their oil mixes. Try one that appeals to you.

Keith

 

[Tarok]

Hey all,

I'm by no means trying to keep this thread alive... I just wanted to say a word of thanks to all for their invaluable advice.

I decided to strip the figure completely. I let it soak in a small jar of brake fluid last night while the missus and I watched a DVD... after the 1.5 - 2 hrs of the movie, all that was needed was very light rubbing with an old toothbrush and the paint, and primer, came right off!

So it's back to begin for me, and hopefully a more satisfactory result...

Thanks for listening...

Rudi