Euro 2015 - and RP Models

[Adrian Cowdry]

I attended Euro yesterday and will add some photos here later but I just wanted to say that it was a lot better than last year.

A good amount of traders - thats the biggest attraction for me - it was great seeing some old friends and faces and some wonderful new releases - Ellies and Michael Kostatos did it for me. Tommy's War - mustard gas victims is sublime.

Too many to mention but this is the standard that needs to be kept - I still think £10 entry is too much - especially as there were less club stands.

As for the talent on show this is the only show in the UK that shows of such figure making/painting talent on such a grand scale and the talent was in spades.

I do feel though that Euro has diminished and I haven't been attending for as long as some of you have.

 

[Blind Pew]

A tenner just to get in?
Deary me, I'm glad I couldn't go now. Rip-off Britain again.

 

[Adrian Cowdry]

I'd like to add that meeting Hugo from RP Models was wonderful - such an enthusiastic man. He is doing a great job with his line of figures/busts and the new Goblin is quite sublime.

 

[Adrian Cowdry]

A Few Photo's from Euro 2015 - more will follow.

 

[Grod]

Nice to speak to you briefly Ade. I got the impression that numbers were up on last Years show and that there were more competition entries. The £10 entry fee would also. get you two pints in the bar!
Cheers
Gordon

 

[Adrian Cowdry]

Great to see you too Gordon - you were busy - not a bad complaint!

Yes numbers were up and comp entries were up - but I still think it's a pricey entry ticket.

 

[Babelfish]

Thanks for posting the photos Adrian - keep 'em coming!

This isn't really a "figure news" thread though, so I'm shunting it across to the "shows" subforum.

- Steve

 

[MalcC]

Hi Guys

Yes, a tenner may seem a lot to get in, but do you have any idea how much it costs to hire the Venue.
A lot more than you probably think and lets face it, they have to recoup their costs, otherwise there wouldn't be a Euro.
Quite frankly, I'd rather have the show.

I believe that folks who attend the Games Workshop event, have to pay a great deal more to get in.
As for the lack of club stands, I was informed that some regrettably had to pull out at short notice.
I do agree the show was better then last year, a great variety of traders, and as already mentioned, the standard in the competition room was incredibly high.
The show was under new management this year, and I'm sure that contributed to the difference, and I'm sure they'll try to make it even better next year.
I for one have already reserved my hotel room for next years show.

Malc

 

[Adrian Cowdry]

Actually I found out tonight that the company running the show bought it over for profit (I agree you can't do it for love) - but £10 is too much - the venue may be expensive - Euro is so well established - move venues. So the company running the show is charging exhorbitant prices for traders tables and entry. The reason there are less UK traders is because they have been priced out of the show - more and more Contoinetal dealers are coming along - that is fine but the Brit Dealers cannot make it because of the cost. Telford is much better value for money. I hope more an more figure dealers attend.

 

[Babelfish]

"Expensive" is a very subjective word, depending on what you consider to be value for money.

A tenner to get in may sound a lot, but when you put it into perspective you can pay close to that amount to watch a 2-hour film at your local multiplex. And you can pay three or four times as much (even more at some grounds) to sit in a cramped, fold-down plastic seat and watch a bunch of overpaid primadonnas kicking an artificial pig's bladder around a grass field for 90 minutes.

In Folkestone however on the third weekend in September, your ten quid gets you up to 8 hours to browse at your leisure around one of the most prestigious model shows in the hobby's calendar, with a good chance of picking up some bargains that could more than pay back the price of admission as against ordering online. And while it may not be the show it once was in terms of scale, it's still a great show with all that amazing talent to gaze in awe at "up close and personal". Plus you can get a 2-day ticket for just 14 Pounds if you want to make a weekend of it.

What worries me far more than the admission price for regular punters is what they charge traders for tables. I understand that this is currently a whopping 310 Pounds per single table - which means that once you factor in travel, hotel, food and other costs, a trader has to shift a lot of stock over the weekend in order to make it a worthwhile trip in financial terms. This I feel sure is the reason why we have seen a decline in the number of traders in recent years, both from the UK and abroad. Time was there were so many traders that there was a large marquee on the grass outside because they wouldn't all fit inside the hall. That went some years ago (early 2000s if memory serves) , and the last few EuroMils have seen a further decline to the extent that some club tables have now been relocated to the balconies as "padding" in order to make the place look more full than it really is, because there are no longer enough traders to fill the balconies.

Thankfully the competition remains popular, but my impression is that the organisers are being very short-sighted in charging the traders so much for their pitches, very much to the detriment of the show as a whole. Better promotion would probably also help, and while I did notice an A4 flyer in a town-centre shop window plus a couple of banners promoting the show in Folkestone's High Street, this clearly isn't enough and more needs to be done. The rise and "convenience" of the Internet is probably a factor as well.

- Steve

 

[Adrian Cowdry]

"Expensive" is a very subjective word, depending on what you consider to be value for money.

Gentlemen - please understand I am making musings - I think on PF here we are all fans of the hobby and mature enough to be able to discuss - I would like to answer the points Babelfish made.

Expensive being subjective - exactly


A tenner to get in may sound a lot, but when you put it into perspective you can pay close to that amount to watch a 2-hour film at your local multiplex. And you can pay three or four times as much (even more at some grounds) to sit in a cramped, fold-down plastic seat and watch a bunch of overpaid primadonnas kicking an artificial pig's bladder around a grass field for 90 minutes.

Being a film fan I get a kick out of going to the cinema still - but that is expensive - do I get value for money? If I am let down by the film then I feel ripped off. Take for example Age of Ultron - it ticked all the boxes, I got my moneysworth with the quality of film making and what I have come to expect with Marvel comic spectaculars but it lacked soul - but I didn't feel ripped off. I saw Thunderbirds Are Go and I felt royally ripped off - not even my kids liked it. As for football I dislike football and to be honest if I were a football fan I'd get a better view watching TV - I personally feel that Football represents all that is wrong in the UK - over paid prima donnas - undereducated and idolised. Football clubs ripping off their fans at best part of £40 for the latest shirt and all the variants. With Rugby you get a much better deal - gentlemen on the pitch - great action and not once have I seen prima donna acts.

In Folkestone however on the third weekend in September, your ten quid gets you up to 8 hours to browse at your leisure around one of the most prestigious model shows in the hobby's calendar, with a good chance of picking up some bargains that could more than pay back the price of admission as against ordering online. And while it may not be the show it once was in terms of scale, it's still a great show with all that amazing talent to gaze in awe at "up close and personal". Plus you can get a 2-day ticket for just 14 Pounds if you want to make a weekend of it.

I am not such a seasoned visitor of Euro - so my observations are made purely on my own and with a few others - indeed this year a friend came with me - he has just come back to the hobby and this is his first visit in 25 years - he was not impressed - £10 entry was expensive in his view - to gain entry basically to see a handful of traders that - lets face it - we can contact via the internet. And at £10 entry that is not all - most modellers and figure makers who visit have to travel - Folkstone is convenient for continental visitors - I live near the M25 so it's an hour or so travelling - PeeDee attended the show - it certainly cost him travelling - so the cost of travelling (subjective I know) and then £10 entry - is it worth it? Well for me I had two in the car to split the fuel - that helps but if I had a train journey from home to Folkstone it would be very costly - take that into account I feel that I don't get value for money at Euro...the show is well established and prestigious but lacking now - my friend observed the lack of vehicles outside (that used to be de rigeur), the traders have lessened over the short time I have been going - the club stands have dwindled. The talent on show is always amazing - but my £10 gains me entry to visit traders and then see museum pieces - I get to talk with old friends and make new acquaintences. But is it worth what effectively costs me £40-50 to get in?

What worries me far more than the admission price for regular punters is what they charge traders for tables. I understand that this is currently a whopping 310 Pounds per single table - which means that once you factor in travel, hotel, food and other costs, a trader has to shift a lot of stock over the weekend in order to make it a worthwhile trip in financial terms. This I feel sure is the reason why we have seen a decline in the number of traders in recent years, both from the UK and abroad. Time was there were so many traders that there was a large marquee on the grass outside because they wouldn't all fit inside the hall. That went some years ago (early 2000s if memory serves) , and the last few EuroMils have seen a further decline to the extent that some club tables have now been relocated to the balconies as "padding" in order to make the place look more full than it really is, because there are no longer enough traders to fill the balconies.

The coment made about bargains - not too often at Euro - the traders need to take as much as possible - if one table is £310 and a hotel for the night and travel so that could easily equate to £500 - that means a trader needs to take £1000 before making profit for the weekend...as a small trader I wouldn't do it - and that is what has happend - I remember seeing so many traders when I first visited Euro - traders that do Telford - Telford is not primarily figures but it could easily attract such and take over Euro - now £10 entry at Telford is amazing value for money - club stands coming out your earholes, bargains everywhere and not rip off table prices. Euro is padded as you say - club stands in the galleries - and if Pegaso were to avoid the cost of travelling and set up there would be no Euro - they are the centre of the show.


Thankfully the competition remains popular, but my impression is that the organisers are being very short-sighted in charging the traders so much for their pitches, very much to the detriment of the show as a whole. Better promotion would probably also help, and while I did notice an A4 flyer in a town-centre shop window plus a couple of banners promoting the show in Folkestone's High Street, this clearly isn't enough and more needs to be done. The rise and "convenience" of the Internet is probably a factor as well.

The competition is also at fault - while being popular and modellers get to compete with the best on the circuit - there are many top end modellers who are professional - if a modeller wins two golds consecutively there should be another tier of classes - Professional - what chance does the hobbyist who does 45 hours a week as a postman and makes his kits in his spare time have against a figure modeller or even a collaboration of two modellers who do this for a living?

But I digress - the atendees have dwindled as well - the first time I visited there was not even any breathing space - why? Well cost has to be a factor - Euro is established and the promoters seem to be resting on their laurels - it was the anniversary of Waterloo - that was the theme - why didn't they have re enactors walking about? Displays and posters and info - this hobby is based very much around history - if I had seen effort put in then I would not make the comment that £10 is a high fee to get into a venue where I want to spend money with traders that I can do over the net for less - my £40-50 to travel and get in would be more than the postage I would have paid if I had ordered over the net.

So - I think in many ways we come to similar conclusions just different ways around - I like Euro - the atmosphere is enthusiastic but I don't like to be ripped off - I don't like ripping people off - I think Euro needs to reinvent itself a little - I know the venue is costly but if the entry price and table price were less then more people would attend - traders and punters and instedad of maximum profit if the promoters sought maximum turnover the profits would come. I lnow it's a different animal but £10 gets you into the Barry Potter Toy Fair at Sandown early - this is worth the cost - because it saves you from being overwhelmed by the crowds - it is ranked at Sandown Park on Toy Fairs with 400 or so traders - as I say a different animal - but not by much. By the way the tables at Sandown are about £50 each!

 

[gforceman]

Imagine you want to enter with your wife and 2 kids : that's already £40; one can buy a nice model for that.
Over here in Belgium there are no entry charges at model shows! So maybe you English modellers should attend more Belgian shows?

cheers,

Gino

 

[mick3272]

Hi.
I wont quote Steve as it will take up room. But £310 per single table is tearing the arse out of it. not to mention £4,80 for a pint of Bitter, No wonder traders are not coming back, Who is to blame for these prices the organisers or the Leas cliff hall. or both. Perhaps a new venue should be sought. I know of one trader who will not attend due to cost. At the end of the day NO TRADERS = NO SHOW.
On my purchase list for the weekend was a couple of bottles of vallejo paint, not cost effective to be purchased via internet ie P&P so close to Euro.
Problem No traders selling this product this year. ( first time Ive not been able to make such purchase at Euro,)
Who's next start of the slippery slope I'm afraid..
Mick

 

[Adrian Cowdry]

Imagine you want to enter with your wife and 2 kids : that's already £40; one can buy a nice model for that.
Over here in Belgium there are no entry charges at model shows! So maybe you English modellers should attend more Belgian shows?

cheers,

Gino

Gino
That is very interesting - no entry fees - in the UK I don't think that possible - all the venues have to be charged.

I am going to ask here - if I could organise a cheaper alternative at a good venue would you as a punter or trader be interested?

 

[Nap]

Hi Guys ,

Great show as always ...putting one on is often a thankless task ...the company running do it to make money , as said by Steve the traders costs are silly for a table ...reduce it down and I am sure you will get even more traders coming along .

The entry cost well ...you certainly get value for money when you're in the hall

Trader quality was great this years with new companies there including Siskin Miniatures, next year RP plan to do something special there ...more to follow once sorted!

Great meeting friends old and new

Hotels are a sore subject but it's only somewhere to lay your head ..not that my wife agreed !!!!

WELL DONE to all that got awards

Here's to next year .

Nap

 

[Babelfish]

I wont quote Steve as it will take up room. But £310 per single table is tearing the arse out of it. not to mention £4,80 for a pint of Bitter, No wonder traders are not coming back, Who is to blame for these prices the organisers or the Leas cliff hall. or both.

I agree Mick, it's an expensive pint there. I had a pint of San Miguel on Saturday lunchtime (not the cheapest pint anywhere) and I paid £4.90 - but they were charging £4.70 for bog-standard Carlsberg! I fancied a packet of salted nuts as well, and the lad behind the bar told me that they were on offer over the weekend at 50p a bag, which I thought was OK so I had a bag.

Come Sunday afternoon though when I went back for another pint (and another bag of nuts) he told me that there were no more salted nuts, only dry roast and another type (can't recall what exactly) and that these weren't on offer - so that would be 2 quid please. I told him (politely of course) where to shove his nuts because there is no way on God's green earth that I am going to pay 2 quid for a small bag of nuts. It's not that I can't afford it, it's just the principle of the thing - I don't like being taken for a mug. And I think it's little "peripheral" stuff like this that get people's backs up as well.

Going back to Adrian's comments about the 10 quid admission fee being "expensive", we could argue round the houses for a dozen pages of thread on that one. Which would be pretty pointless because with things like this one man's "expensive" is another man's "great value". There is no "right answer". Bottom line: if you think it's expensive or not worth it - then don't bother going. Simple really.

Yes you can buy your models, paints, books for whatever online from the very same traders, but I think for most of us who attend Euro on a regular basis it's not just about buying figures. Or just about the competition. It's a combination of those things plus the opportunity to socialise, chew the cud and sink a few cold ones with kindred spirits from the hobby, and generally have a fun and relaxing weekend in a pleasant seaside location. And to me personally that's well worth the price of admission. And for those with a commercial interest (i.e. the traders) it's a great place to network, press the flesh and do a bit of wheeling and dealing in a far more personal way than is possible from behind a computer screen. The social aspect of it all is every bit as important as the models for a lot of people - punters, sculptors and traders alike.

Like I said before, my own feeling is that the biggest threat posed to Euro is the table charges levied on the traders, that smacks to me of short-termist greed by whoever is responsible for setting those charges.

- Steve

 

[Adrian Cowdry]

Yes you can buy your models, paints, books for whatever online from the very same traders, but I think for most of us who attend Euro on a regular basis it's not just about buying figures. Or just about the competition. It's a combination of those things plus the opportunity to socialise, chew the cud and sink a few cold ones with kindred spirits from the hobby, and generally have a fun and relaxing weekend in a pleasant seaside location. And to me personally that's well worth the price of admission. And for those with a commercial interest (i.e. the traders) it's a great place to network, press the flesh and do a bit of wheeling and dealing in a far more personal way than is possible from behind a computer screen. The social aspect of it all is every bit as important as the models for a lot of people - punters, sculptors and traders alike.

Like I said before, my own feeling is that the biggest threat posed to Euro is the table charges levied on the traders, that smacks to me of short-termist greed by whoever is responsible for setting those charges.

- Steve

It totally agree - one mans expense other mans value for money - and it is the social that is very important but as I say if you take into the equation the travel possible accomodation I think £10 when compared to Telford is over the top with the slow loss of traders (over priced pitches) and lack of clubs and outside activities. Like you I don't like being a mug - expensive pints, expensive snacks and entrance fee - as someone else said - take your family along and it gets hefty.

 

[Babelfish]

And at £10 entry that is not all - most modellers and figure makers who visit have to travel - Folkstone is convenient for continental visitors - I live near the M25 so it's an hour or so travelling - PeeDee attended the show - it certainly cost him travelling - so the cost of travelling (subjective I know) and then £10 entry - is it worth it? Well for me I had two in the car to split the fuel - that helps but if I had a train journey from home to Folkstone it would be very costly - take that into account I feel that I don't get value for money at Euro...

Not being funny Adrian but I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that "Folkestone is convenient for continental visitors" and not (it would appear) for UK visitors.

I agree that it's reasonably convenient for people in northern France or Belgium. But what about Pegaso who make the trip from Italy? Of the Akritis and Terra Models lads from Greece? Or Siskin, new in from Poland this year? Frank Miniatures from Germany? Or Scale 75 from Spain? When I lived in Germany I'd do 9-hour drive over plus a ferry at the other end and make a long weekend of it. On two occasions (2007 and 2008) the woman I was living with at the time came over with me and we made a mini break of it and took in a couple of other stops on the mainland. So while it was "worth it" for me personally (see above), it was anything but "convenient" or cheap!

These days I'm in Derbyshire and I'm looking at a 4-hour drive down plus a total of around 70 quid in petrol costs for the weekend - it's far more "convenient" (and much cheaper) than when I was living in Germany!

- Steve

 

[Babelfish]

- as someone else said - take your family along and it gets hefty.

True. Same can be said for anything though.

- Steve

 

[ellie]

Hi all

Having got back from Euro and now taking stock of the way forward for us as a company, I have to say that the Cost of a table at Euro is way too high. a new company like Ellie's Miniatures who has a very limited range and are just finding their way in a very competitive hobby could find it difficult to find a reason to attend next year at that price. and I'm sure it will go up again.

It's a great show and a fantastic weekend to meet up with friends old and new and a good way to net work (Which we did a lot of and will see new projects come along in the future). But we could do this with out the expense of having a trade stand. I have noticed that a lot of traders do not attend and if you ask them it's down to cost. they will do shows like Telford as it's cheaper and is growing each year. As Has been said Euro could die if traders stop coming. we know the organizers have to make a profit but you can't make up that profit by upping the price to cover for the traders that no longer wish to come.

The internet may have an impact on the show as we know most of our customers are online, but it's still nice to see the figures in the flesh but small companies have to look at the overheads and the impact the show has on their profits too. a company can't function without profit, it's from that profit that goes on to produce new product which we hope you the modelling public will buy.

I heard it said by other traders that Euro is a very expensive advert/showcase for your product. small shows around the country seem to do very well and don't charge the earth for tables, and then again they might not be charged the earth for the hire of the hall, the problem is that big companies like the one that runs Euro will always look for a big profit a small return will not interest them. I'm sure Folkston Council would not charge too much for the hire of the Leas as they well know what trade it brings in at the end of the Holiday season. and they know the show is good for local pubs, restaurants & Hotels which in these hard times would welcome the weekend.

It's correct £310 for a 6ft wooden table and a bit of floor space is a bit over the top, when you compare the same table and floor space at a local show with the same facilities cost on average £35. sorry Euro you will have to start to think about the traders more or it will die and that would be a shame. but as we all know we say this year after year and no change. the only change that takes place is the ownership of the event.

Ellie's Miniatures will not be attending next Year but we will be at Local Events and will be looking to book a table at Telford next year. Me and the guys will be at Euro but just as a paying member of the public sad but True. we have to look at our business and our decision is to miss a year and then come back the following year when we are more established and we will see if their are any changes.

And would like to say a Big thank you to all our customers who came and said hello, we have some great new releases to come before Xmas and we hope to see some of you at the White Rose base at Xmas

Cheers

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com