120mm Samurai - Mitches Military Models

[Gellso]

For me Stu and Mark S in his last post have hopefully brought this to an end.
I for one have learned a lot about a subject I had little interest in so that's good.
Carl is an artist sculpting for artists, if it doesn't interest you or meet your historical accuracy requirements don't buy it. Kudos to MMM for continuing to expand beyond their traditional range.
Anyway this is missing the real area of concern ........Grant .......... the first and only Scotsman to use the 'word' Toodles.

Help ma boab.....

 

[Huw63]

@ Mick - PM'ing the manufacturer of a new release is a complete waste of time. The only manufacturer who posts WIPs and responds positively to contructive criticism is Hugo of RP and thats because he is a gent and he is working in digital where late stage changes are easy to make. Other manufacturers turnkey their projects to free lance sculptors. By the time they get the finished commission it is likely too late and uneconomic to demand changes. So PM'ing the manufacturer is pointless. It will just make them annoyed for no purpose.

I appreciate comments on the accuracy of pieces from those in the know. I also don't expect free lance sculptors to know every detail of a uniform, hair style or weapon. If I am anal enough to want accuracy, I can adjust the piece. Inaccuracy does not impact my buying decision. I just ordered a beautiful bust with palm leaf embroidery on his uniform. I expect I shall be the only idiot in the world to adjust these to oak leaves. More fool me.

If knowledgable members start putting in references to prove they are right (as suggested), I expect the know-it-all monker will be even more widely applied.

I know we are dealing with small businesses operating in a competitive environment where piracy can steal the benefits of a very successful idea. Commenters should be sensitive to that. I don't think this means never offer constructive criticism. But highlight the positives too. And if the piece is truly horrible, perhaps stay quiet and let the seller draw their own conclusions from sales figures.

Hello Colin

I've PM'd a manufacturer and got very positive feedback.

Secondly why does putting in references make the know-all moniker more widely applied? Surely better to let people know where references are from helps spread knowledge and facilitates the ability of people to do their own research e.g books about Japanese history and swords, American Indian headdress etc. - these are two topics about which I have nothing in my library and if I wanted to know more then I'd more than appreciate someone telling my about some reference material.

Finally what you say is true - if a piece is truly horrible then don't buy it.

Cheers

Huw

 

[Gellso]

Whoops, forgot myself there Del.
It's a braw licht moonlight nicht the nicht. Or Wullie, stoater and pure belter byraway.

That's me back in the real world now mate cheery!
Grant

 

[Mark S]

OK, my very last comment on the issue of figure critique.....I promise, the last......in this thread anyway.

It seems to me that with the way things stand at the moment the simplest adult solution to the issue is that all introductory posts in all threads should contain one of two lines.
After the initial intro simply say either "All Comments Welcome" or "Plaudits Only Please".

This will indeed clear up any confusion as to who feels they don't mind to take onboard any historical information or anatomical opinion, or who feels they don't wish to have any of that advice, but simply hear how good their piece is.

Surely we can all agree that this would work and clear up any confusion on the matter.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Hello all!

I feel sorry and sad that these kind of matter has come to this. And that it has so many times in the past.

Its is extra sad as the two sides can not respect each other. Of course there are plenty of you who can, but they seem not be in the argument or at least so prominent in the discussion. And to see many guys that I know are nice and good friends express themselves in a way that you should not do among friends.

Carl is a great sculptor, a helpfull and funny guy who always try to encourage you. I think he has developed how bust are portrayed with his half figures thus fitting in personality and movement in the bust. It is Carl in this case but same thing happens to other sculptors as well. And most of them are great guys as well.

I aslo like to see the information shared with those that are indeed knowledgeable in the area of interest. And I try myself to share the little I know of late Iron age. And I rather see an informed discussion about inaccuries or percieved inaccuries than making this a fight about who is putting who down. Although we must accept that there are big potholes in our documetation for certain eras and cultures. But of course there is also the economical gain or loss for a figure if its gets well recieved or not to take in consideration. And small business like many figure companies suffer if the figures doesnt give the invested money back. Many of them has it as a side business rather because of the love for the hobby than the money and groupies. Also as a community, does our loyalty go with our fellow miniaturist or with the companys? Or at least how divided is our loyalty?

Me, sometimes Im a diehard for accuracy, other times I just get a figure for the fun of it or knowing I can change or correct it. But still, I want to be informed, knowing that few things in life are perfect. And also many figures are inaccurate that only a few of us know of, and sometimes inaccuries has become the norm.

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[Ferris]

We can all do our bit to prevent threads devolving into a flame war: if we would all have the discipline to stick to the topic. Posts in Figure news should relate to the figure, not to other's responses to that figure. A thread starts to de-rail when responses start to become about other responses, and not about the thread topic.

Having said that I apologize for not saying anything about samurai or this figure and for seeing the occasional flame war as pretty good entertainment that adds some spice to the forum. Judging by the number of views I am not the only one... ;-)

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[Babelfish]

And to see many guys that I know are nice and good friends express themselves in a way that you should not do among friends.

+1 to that Janne.

What's sad about it is that having the exact same discussion about it face to face over a beer at a show, in all probability it wouldn't happen.

Personalities will inevitably clash from time to time whether online or in the real world, but the added danger with the 'written' word on forums is that it's not always as easy to get nuances, humour, good intentions etc. across as it is face to face where a smile, body language, intonation etc. can make all the difference so that unpleasantness doesn't arise in the first place.

We're all only human, we can all get caught out. I'll be the first to admit that's something I've been guilty of more than once, including in the case of two pF members (I won't name them) who had made a shall we say "less than favourable" impression on me here, but when I eventually got to meet them at shows actually turned out to be really nice blokes. I learned a lot from that.

- Steve

 

[yellowcat]

After seeing this thread unfolding and the trend the forum is heading, I have decided not to comment or make reply to any threads anymore. All my reference materials that are in the work are now ceased. I shall be selling my grey armies in the coming months. This will be my swan song. Good painting to all Planeteers.
Adios amigos, sayonara, salut, arrivderci, machs gut, joigin ............

 

[Tommi]

FFS have a couple of days away and come back to all this childish crap again, many messages, complaints and primary school bickering, sort it out as the forum staff and myself have other things to deal with as well as have a life away from PF. I thought we are all supposed to be adults!

Tommi

 

[kagemusha]

FFS have a couple of days away and come back to all this childish crap again, many messages, complaints and primary school bickering, sort it out as the forum staff and myself have other things to deal with as well as have a life away from PF. I thought we are all supposed to be adults!

Tommi

Sorry Tommi....but I for one don't like being spoken to like that....far from adult.....like being back at school....far from 'adult/administrator' language or attitude!
We all have a life outside PF.

 

[Tommi]

My apologies Ron if you think this was aimed directly at you as it was not, its very frustrating for us to deal with all the stuff you don't see and most of the time people want things done about issues and this always seems to put us in an awkward no win situation.

Cheers
Tommi

 

[kagemusha]

Fair enough Tommi...understand how difficult it must be to deal with such a mixed bunch as us lot

ATB

Ron

 

[Tommi]

Thanks Ron

Cheers
Tommi

 

[billyturnip]

To no one in particular but there's way too many angry old men on here (mostly in the UK unfortunately ) who should read what they've written a couple of times before hitting "Post Reply". Is this how you would speak to someone face to face? I would hope not and believe me your time is better spent painting toy soldiers.
Thank you. Out.

 

[Helm]

I'm not old

 

[billyturnip]

I'm not old

Yes you are.

 

[kagemusha]

I'm not old

I bloody am

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I'm not old

Antique? Weathered? Ancient? Fossilized?

Cheers
Janne Nilsson

 

[ellie]

CRF just thought I would comment on your post about RP Miniatures being the only company that listens . I think you will find that most companies listen and respond to any info that can be of help to them.

We at Ellie's have contacted a few members by PM with regards to some of our past releases and one's in the pipe line. (Cheers Richie) I know for a fact that most companies put a lot of time and effort into getting things right. well as right as they can with the info they have and receive. We should know we have had some critique on a couple of or pieces of late. we took on board what was said and in the case of our shall we say fuller figure gent we stuck with it as it was one that could nether be proved nor disproved as to the gent being over weight. but what it has done is pleased a lot of people who thought it was a good move to show someone who did not look like a male model. and our new release the Jaeger we have since it was pointed out had the arm re done so we do listen.

I also think you will find that the vast majority of manufactures do listen and will go the extra mile to try and get it right. what you have to remember is that disagreements like this do not help manufactures as it makes them wonder why do we bother. we put a lot of time & Money into getting these products to you. have a thought for Ross at MMM. they ventured into something new for them and got totally slammed for it. Sales could well have been damaged ( I hope not but who can tell). but it's obvious that to a small minority this does not matter as long as they have their say. it can and does damage companies.

From what I've read it's still open to interpretation as to weather the sword is right or not. even the great Stephen Turnball has had to rethink some of what he has written about. so we should keep an open mind on things. express your thoughts but don't say that it's the absolute truth as even the experts can be proven to be wrong.

Ian

www.elliesminiatures.com

 

[Huw63]

I'm not old

Nor am I though when I was a lad I used to call the steam train the iron horse! I remember when Wales had a coal and steel industry, when cars were proper cars not with airbags and electronics, when Harleys had barely no electrics, when Triumphs were made in Meriden... I'm not old....