120mm Samurai - Mitches Military Models

[TADATSUGU]

HANDBAG-TIME!

To be perfectly frank, no I don't really care! But many thanks for the 42 line reply about the length of a sword or katana or tango or whatever the hell it is.

It sounds like you care Grant. You sound awfully angry about something you have no interest in. My contribution to this thread was not intended for you or anyone else who is not interested. I was hoping to inform those members who ARE INTERESTED in producing accurate models of samurai of what I found to be errors which would compromise them doing so. (emphasis to make sure my point gets through)
If you are not interested in Samurai may I respectfully suggest you limit your non specific criticisms to a thread concerning something you do care about.

Cheers Gaudin, but that was personally for you because you asked and was not publically broadcast to everyone purely to show off my mighty omnipotence!

Do you have a degree in sarcasm by any chance?
I do apologise, I was not aware that I was not allowed to contribute information unless it was requested. I will try to keep my massive brain in-check in future.

By the way; "I might not be a good cook and therefore I have no right to judge other peoples skill at cooking as I don't know what I am talking about" is a very poor analogy. Tell it to Gregg Wallace, who successfully makes a career out of judging other peoples cooking on one of the U.K.'s most successful TV shows Masterchef without having been a cook himself.
This is the kind of flawed logic beloved by those without a valid point to make. It suggests that someone who has, for example, studied The history of Art for a lifetime knows nothing about it unless he can himself paint as well as Turner or Rembrandt.

Neither was I attempting to judge anyone's ability to do anything. I thought I was stating what I consider to be historical facts. If my information was wrong I would welcome you putting them right - (please state reference sources when you do).

If the Humour-less out there don't realise it, I am writing tongue-in-cheek. But it does annoy me that on this site an offer of information is taken as a personal attack on a sculptor, or an open invitation to be insulted. I have made this response as a reply to comments that only seem to have been made as a personal attack on me and Oda, a fellow enthusiast.
I don't need it and the site doesn't need it.

And oh yes, I personally liked the Eurovision Song Contest winner .

 

[mick3272]

Here we go again.
Edit.
As Oda said, what we have seem to have here is a 16th century Samurai wearing anachronistic Heian armour. No I can't say it never happened, but it's highly unlikely. We are talking about a 400 year old difference in a country where humidity would probably have taken a great toll on the preservation of such items. Would Sir Francis Drake have put on Crusader armour as first choice to go to fight club? The lack of shaved forehead also suggests that the model is even later than the 16th century - more likely the Edo period (17th cent) which makes things even worse.

But of course, I forgot. So many of you out there don't care, do You?

David It is nice that you have a passion for this subject, but you will never win however hard you try.

Gentlemen all.
It is very simple He is a 16th Cent Samurai, reenactor.
They are twinned with our sealed knot Society.
Simples
Mick

 

[peedee]

God this is getting boring

Look everybody cares guys....that's why we try doing supportive posts, BUT we just aren't interested in being preached to...!

This is Ross's thred and you've hijacked another one with page long diatribes So........to sum up....

Bye

Paul.

 

[Babelfish]

This is Ross's thred and you've hijacked another one with page long diatribes So........to sum up....

Agree entirely Paul. Disagreeing with someone and saying your piece is fine. It's knowing when to stop and draw a line that's the art form. Some guys are like dogs with bones once they get going.

Like you say, it's all getting boring now, and rather pointless. I don't want to lock the thread down but if it carries on down this path, I will do.

- Steve

 

[Mark S]

Jesus Paul,, that's got to be one of the most cheerfully ignorant and offensive posts I've ever seen on this forum.
If you're so ignorant of the topic that you're not interested in being "preached to" simply leave it alone and let those that do care learn from those who have some expertise in the subject.
I'm well informed that it's not compulsary to comment, I'm not sure but that may apply to all members.
Why is expert advice now regarded as something bad........the dumbing down of this forum will be it's downfall IMO.
This forum is/was a great resource for the exchange of ideas, history and techniques and the sharing of all aspects of our hobby....many of us have learned here and moved forward and improved by sharing the expertise of others.
When I joined this forum it was an exciting place where the exchange of ideas was highly valued and appreciated by all members across North America and Europe but for some reason in recent years this knowledge and expertise is now seen as "diatribe", "smartarsedness" and "knowitall" crapp.
This forum has devolved into a place where the true appreciation and critical appraisal of figures is now simply a case of who is mates with who, who doesn't like who, which clique likes what and a negative resistance to any critque at all.
It may come as a surprise to some people that some people are more informed in some topics than they are but.....only school children would try to belittle them by calling them knowitalls.
This forum as I said doesn't resemble the one I joined so many years ago....as far as I'm concerned it's now the defunct Basement....and I'm sure it will go the same way as the Basement if these defensive parochial attitudes continue.
And the threat to lock the thread simply amplifies what I'm saying.

But of course I guess I'll simply be accused of waffling on or preaching....cheers.

 

[kagemusha]

Sorry but I disagree....keep locking threads is what's really boring .....freedom of speech is a hard won right....and I for one don't like others imposing their ideals on me
Where is the harm in having informed critique....or for that matter.....a counter argument....sarcasm has it's role in most disagreements.....
If it becomes boring....bow out....not rocket science...I for one like to learn and laugh...both criteria have been well met by this thread
There is only one reason to close a thread...IMHO.....and that is threats of a physical nature......

 

[Babelfish]

I largely agree Ron.

Problem is (and this has happened a number of times), once threads descend into slanging matches, that's when messages start landing in my PM box to the effect of "where the hell are the mods" and/or requesting them to be locked down.

Bit of a stretch though to say that threads "keep" being locked down. I can count on my fingers the number of times I've felt it necessary to do that in the past 18 months or so (in most cases at the request of other members). Tommi has locked a handful down as well. All of which amounts to a tiny fraction of the thousands of threads that have been started across all the sub-forums in that time.

Someone said somewhere a few days ago that we should "moderate in moderation". I'd argue that we do. Like the phrase "crap music" really usually just means "music I don't like", this phrase "over moderating" that I've seen being bandied about a couple of times this past week basically means "moderator calls I don't agree with". In other words, it's all subjective. Intervene (or sometimes even just comment) in a thread and you are bound to piss someone off. Goes with the territory.

- Steve

 

[Colin_Fraser]

I don't make accuracy or anatomy critiques on new release threads anymore because I don't need the BS that ALWAYS comes back. Its always from a predictable small group of self appointed warriors who rush to the defence of their favourite sculptor or manufacturer. Dare I say it also seems to always be UK-centric thing.

If people start witholding useful info and sharing historical detail, this site will have run its course. And if mods start shutting down threads because they are irtitated by pleas to muzzle criticism, it is definitley past its sell by date.

I have spent the last few months renovating my house and have decreased my participation. Sadly, I am not missing a lot.

I am starting to agree with Gra of CGS....at least there is Facebook.

 

[Babelfish]

Why guys continue to post (in some cases regularly) on sites that they think are past their sell-by date, are badly run, are excessively moderated, are no longer exciting, are clique-ish, where there is too much conflict, where they don't feel valued/welcome - or any combination of the above - will always be a mystery to me.

Surely the answer - once the 'cons' outnumber the 'pros' - is simply just to go elsewhere. Or better still, set up your own site and run it the way you think it should be run. As Ron says - not rocket science.

Speaking now just as a member - not as a mod (having taken on board arguments against locking this one down).

- Steve

 

[mick3272]

Everyone has a right to comment on a thread that has been posted.
If you think part or all of a figure is wrong then if you wish make comment, and add
reason to back your point. If your point is not accepted by others right or wrong there
must be a time to give in gracefully , otherwise you are just flogging a dead horse.
Mick

 

[tomifune]

When I first seen this figure, I thought he was carrying a nodachi.
These swords go all the way back to the tachi as there are many mentions of them throughout all the periods as being given out as awards from daimyo's and vassals for services. By accounts though, they were used mostly by cavalry and carried on the back. There are not a lot of the originals around as when the Tokugawa Shogunate took over and started passing many restrictions on weapons in the first half of the 1600's, there was a maximum put on sword lengths and many were chopped down or donated to temples and shrines. There are currently a couple of sword styles that use them and can be seen on youtube in regular iaido or kenjutsu styles. Even though I know its a movie, Toshiro Mifune's character in Seven Samurai had one and carried it in varying places throughout the movie. My point is that it can be done.

I enjoy Dave posts although I myself don't like to deal in absolutes when talking about anything from Medieval Ages on back. Also I would not feel comfortable telling someone what they should paint. There are :
1. Not enough sources
2. Conflicting sources
3. No providence
Example: The current scope from scholars is that Ninjas didn't really exist, at least not in the form we think of. They were more just samurai that were called on with special skills. Anthony Cummins backs this and Stephen Turnbull released a video recently backing off his books info and changing his mind due to new findings.
Armor pieces on display in places such as Osaka Castle which were thought to be original have been dated and found to contain add-ons put together during the Edo period. It doesn't take away from enjoying them though.
Comparing knowledge from these eras with WW2 tanks, fuhgettaboutit

Bob

 

[Gellso]

HANDBAG-TIME!



It sounds like you care Grant. You sound awfully angry about something you have no interest in. My contribution to this thread was not intended for you or anyone else who is not interested. I was hoping to inform those members who ARE INTERESTED in producing accurate models of samurai of what I found to be errors which would compromise them doing so. (emphasis to make sure my point gets through)
If you are not interested in Samurai may I respectfully suggest you limit your non specific criticisms to a thread concerning something you do care about.



Do you have a degree in sarcasm by any chance?
I do apologise, I was not aware that I was not allowed to contribute information unless it was requested. I will try to keep my massive brain in-check in future.

By the way; "I might not be a good cook and therefore I have no right to judge other peoples skill at cooking as I don't know what I am talking about" is a very poor analogy. Tell it to Gregg Wallace, who successfully makes a career out of judging other peoples cooking on one of the U.K.'s most successful TV shows Masterchef without having been a cook himself.
This is the kind of flawed logic beloved by those without a valid point to make. It suggests that someone who has, for example, studied The history of Art for a lifetime knows nothing about it unless he can himself paint as well as Turner or Rembrandt.

Neither was I attempting to judge anyone's ability to do anything. I thought I was stating what I consider to be historical facts. If my information was wrong I would welcome you putting them right - (please state reference sources when you do).

If the Humour-less out there don't realise it, I am writing tongue-in-cheek. But it does annoy me that on this site an offer of information is taken as a personal attack on a sculptor, or an open invitation to be insulted. I have made this response as a reply to comments that only seem to have been made as a personal attack on me and Oda, a fellow enthusiast.
I don't need it and the site doesn't need it.

And oh yes, I personally liked the Eurovision Song Contest winner .

Thanks for the 28 line response. Unfortunately like your other mammoth sermon I dozed off after the second line and went to paint a bust.

If you' d like to pm me instead of reading my mind wrongly and placing your delusions for all and sundry to see I would love to compare our benches for historical comparisons.

Oops you have absolutely nothing posted in there.

I'll let my brushes do the talking.......you crack on with the very sticky step of reference finding.

Hope this helps,

Gells

 

[TADATSUGU]

Everybody else will be glad to know, I am now bored of all this childish nonsense.

 

[Gellso]

Still no Pm or Vbench mate.

Toodles,

Gells

 

[TADATSUGU]

No point PM - YOU NO CAN BE RATIONALISED WITH - END

 

[stormtrooper miniatures]

I really cant believe this,,,its a figure titled samurai,,,nothing else ,,no period no time no nothing.

To me it has artistry,,emotion,,attitude...that's all.

It is a testament to the sculptors art to convey something without anything.

What is apparent is, if this were in any others part of PF it would not have attracted any comment for fear of hurting somebodies feelings,,,but because its news it doesn't matter !!!

Its the same people critiquing the same companies,,,the same sculptors and yet in the same period of time I have seen much more to critique from other companies but nothing from these same people,,and one in particular has an avid interest in the period.

Its not good,,,it has to stop !!!

Stuart

 

[Huw63]

I really cant believe this,,,its a figure titled samurai,,,nothing else ,,no period no time no nothing.

To me it has artistry,,emotion,,attitude...that's all.

It is a testament to the sculptors art to convey something without anything.

What is apparent is, if this were in any others part of PF it would not have attracted any comment for fear of hurting somebodies feelings,,,but because its news it doesn't matter !!!

Its the same people critiquing the same companies,,,the same sculptors and yet in the same period of time I have seen much more to critique from other companies but nothing from these same people,,and one in particular has an avid interest in the period.

Its not good,,,it has to stop !!!

Stuart

I think private constructive criticism is fair but PM the manufacturer not send it to the World. I'm not a manufacturer but those that are are small businesses trying to make money from their passion and support artistry and make it as correct as possible. As I said earlier to me this is what a Samurai looks like and I am no expert in Japanese history or militaria.

In the case of all the multitude of inaccuracies one thing I note is missing is the lack of a list of references in support of the points. As few on here state they have such profound knowledge references should also be stated plus where possible some pictures. Ideally these could be sent to a manufacturer where the manufacturer states the figure is of a particular period and not simply published here. I'm sure that most manufacturers will listen and decide if correction is necessary or not. Indeed they would probably appreciate some friendly help and support.

Finally the sculptor is just that and has feelings. Constantly publically bashing sculptors means they are less likely to show their wares on here and this devalues the forum. Colin CRF has made an astute observation in his comment.

I'm probably going to get slated somewhere by someone on this commentary but a bit of courtesy and decorum does make a difference in my opinion.

Cheers

Huw

 

[Mark S]

David It is nice that you have a passion for this subject, but you will never win however hard you try........
Mick

Everyone has a right to comment on a thread that has been posted.
If you think part or all of a figure is wrong then if you wish make comment, and add
reason to back your point. If your point is not accepted by others right or wrong there
must be a time to give in gracefully , otherwise you are just flogging a dead horse.
Mick

These are clear examples of how miscontrued a figure critique or the imparting of historical information has become on this forum.

It's not a contest.....it's not a case of winner or loser!!!....or "a time to give in gracefully".

It's a simple case of someone being good enough to impart some of their specialist knowledge.....take it or leave it.

 

[DEL]

For me Stu and Mark S in his last post have hopefully brought this to an end.
I for one have learned a lot about a subject I had little interest in so that's good.
Carl is an artist sculpting for artists, if it doesn't interest you or meet your historical accuracy requirements don't buy it. Kudos to MMM for continuing to expand beyond their traditional range.
Anyway this is missing the real area of concern ........Grant .......... the first and only Scotsman to use the 'word' Toodles.

Still no Pm or Vbench mate.

Toodles,

Gells

Help ma boab.....

 

[Colin_Fraser]

@ Huw - PM'ing the manufacturer of a new release is a complete waste of time. The only manufacturer who posts WIPs and responds positively to contructive criticism is Hugo of RP and thats because he is a gent and he is working in digital where late stage changes are easy to make. Other manufacturers turnkey their projects to free lance sculptors. By the time they get the finished commission it is likely too late and uneconomic to demand changes. So PM'ing the manufacturer is pointless. It will just make them annoyed for no purpose.

I appreciate comments on the accuracy of pieces from those in the know. I also don't expect free lance sculptors to know every detail of a uniform, hair style or weapon. If I am anal enough to want accuracy, I can adjust the piece. Inaccuracy does not impact my buying decision. I just ordered a beautiful bust with palm leaf embroidery on his uniform. I expect I shall be the only idiot in the world to adjust these to oak leaves. More fool me.

If knowledgable members start putting in references to prove they are right (as suggested), I expect the know-it-all monker will be even more widely applied.

I know we are dealing with small businesses operating in a competitive environment where piracy can steal the benefits of a very successful idea. Commenters should be sensitive to that. I don't think this means never offer constructive criticism. But highlight the positives too. And if the piece is truly horrible, perhaps stay quiet and let the seller draw their own conclusions from sales figures.